tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post6143376333790126290..comments2023-10-09T12:55:26.688-04:00Comments on The Burning Taper: A brotherhood without boundariesWidow's Sonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05135009678671539418noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-17124325528790418882009-09-07T18:28:46.277-04:002009-09-07T18:28:46.277-04:00There is no more than non-sense that to proclaim &...There is no more than non-sense that to proclaim "intelligence and tolerance" without apply it. The "main stream" Freemasonry-Anglosaxon is dogmatic and sadly they believe that only their close minded point of view is correct. It seems that a frremason of the so call "mainstream" wants to dictate the laws of how rule the minds of the human beings in freemasonry's world. <br />They are the true profanes because they have walk into Freemasonry but Freemasonry have not walk trough them. True Freemasonry is beyond all that. No bounderies...Freemasonry IS UNIVERSAL and there is ONLY ONE Freemasonry is the hole Universe that contains EVERYTHING<br />All the best to all my brothers and sisters from all the Potencies and all the Lodges of all the world with free thinking. <br />To my followers of the UGL of England:Just be intelligent and please THINK for yourself<br />Viva the Grand Orient de France!!!Igor Sarmientos Lo Crudo y lo Cocidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05802378824159769296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-9359633083426680332008-04-16T09:25:00.000-04:002008-04-16T09:25:00.000-04:00Are there others who would like to experience a br...Are there others who would like to experience a brother/sisterhood without boundaries?<BR/><BR/>If so, please join us over at http://www.tracingboard.comHoward Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-66140019299773196662008-03-24T22:51:00.000-04:002008-03-24T22:51:00.000-04:00Perhaps Tom might prefer to be in a constructive, ...<I>Perhaps Tom might prefer to be in a constructive, creative, positive role?</I><BR/><BR/>I endeavor to give satisfaction, Brother TSMR. Did you perhaps miss my questions to you?Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-91882101477315602332008-03-24T22:03:00.000-04:002008-03-24T22:03:00.000-04:00A beer it is. :-)A beer it is. :-)Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-59728372663446427492008-03-24T21:51:00.000-04:002008-03-24T21:51:00.000-04:00"The obligate themselves to the organization in or..."The obligate themselves to the organization in order to find fulfillment and then blindly champion its causes without regard to moral implications involved."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely correct! ;,) I'll buy you a beer too-hope you don't mind 3-2! You probably know that I didn't hear about Voltaire or Spinoza in lodge.<BR/><BR/>I don't care about the rules or the GL or even my lodge if it does not fit into the bigger picture or at least try. My lodge, my GL, do for the most part strive to be a good organization. None of us are perfect (although that does not preclude a big ego). We're all rough ashlars, trying to improve ourselve (ideally). The obligations aren't the GL's or my Lodges. They belong to me to do with what I wish. I will keep my oath within the dictates of reason and sentiment.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-90940873358656495922008-03-24T21:43:00.000-04:002008-03-24T21:43:00.000-04:00"Let's take this back to center and get back to th..."Let's take this back to center and get back to the discussion at hand. How does this actually work."<BR/><BR/>A more important question is; will this actually work? Betrand Russell ('Why I Am Not A Christian) says in his 'Authority and the Individual':<BR/><BR/>"Buddhism and Christianity-have sought to extend to the whole human race...have preached the 'brotherhood of man', showing by the use of the word 'brotherhood' that they are attempting to extend beyond its natural bound an emotional attitude which, in its origins, is biological...This is not an easy problem, and one that cannot be solved by morality alone."My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-42565793259541141072008-03-24T21:30:00.000-04:002008-03-24T21:30:00.000-04:00"What the hell is the matter with you people? Is i..."What the hell is the matter with you people? Is it really worth all of this. Sure I respect the rules of your Grand Lodge. I wouldn't expect any of the Anglo-American Masonic Brethren to try to come to my lodge. I would expect, and I do believe that this is reciprocated, that these Brothers from both sides of the issue could sit down and have a beer together.<BR/>Have we all gotten some bent over an organization that we can't even speak civilly? Take a break guys. Take a big deep breath and get over it. There are far more important things to do. The Craft in general has some very important things to do."<BR/><BR/>I agree 100%. Of course we could have a beer together. There is nothing prohibiting it. I'll even buy.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-74505012737968554262008-03-24T19:30:00.000-04:002008-03-24T19:30:00.000-04:00Having corresponded with him in the past I am sure...Having corresponded with him in the past I am sure that he can offer just what you are seeking in constructive discussion.<BR/> Brother TSMR, you are perhaps sharper than most Masons I know. It is an honor to call you Brother. Brother Tom is a good man, he just has the bad taste to disagree with me from time to time.<BR/><BR/> Let's take this back to center and get back to the discussion at hand. How does this actually work.<BR/><BR/>BrandtJohn Galthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673745675058971875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-41076659713184445932008-03-24T19:19:00.000-04:002008-03-24T19:19:00.000-04:00Perhaps Tom might prefer to be in a constructive, ...Perhaps Tom might prefer to be in a constructive, creative, positive role?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Tom could offer <B>one suggestion</B> that would contribute <B>in a major way</B> to a better Freemasonry, one that would be of greater service to all of humanity?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18180250713349674983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-13577479377761549092008-03-24T19:15:00.000-04:002008-03-24T19:15:00.000-04:00What the hell is the matter with you people? Is it...What the hell is the matter with you people? Is it really worth all of this. Sure I respect the rules of your Grand Lodge. I wouldn't expect any of the Anglo-American Masonic Brethren to try to come to my lodge. I would expect, and I do believe that this is reciprocated, that these Brothers from both sides of the issue could sit down and have a beer together. <BR/> Have we all gotten some bent over an organization that we can't even speak civilly? Take a break guys. Take a big deep breath and get over it. There are far more important things to do. The Craft in general has some very important things to do.John Galthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673745675058971875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-1616187870135739012008-03-24T18:55:00.000-04:002008-03-24T18:55:00.000-04:00Please explain how your GL keeps its integrity by ...<I>Please explain how your GL keeps its integrity by allowing you to spread Universal Brotherhood by associating with those women and clandestine masons?</I><BR/><BR/>Do you suppose they're spreading "universal brotherhood" by sneaking into each other's lodges on the presence that they really do belong to those organizations?<BR/><BR/>Grand Lodges have rules and regulations. Some of us may not like them - I know I'm not crazy about some of them - and so the <I>ethical</I> way to approach it is to a) live with it, b) leave, or c) try to change them. <BR/><BR/>Insulting those who try to work with the system doesn't seem very productive to me.Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-42483439617401069452008-03-24T17:33:00.000-04:002008-03-24T17:33:00.000-04:00Francois,It's just like I stated earlier. Men like...Francois,<BR/><BR/>It's just like I stated earlier. Men like you always rely on the ideas and remarks of others because you can't think for your self. Thank you for proving me right by quoting me.<BR/><BR/>This aspect of their personality is indictaive of their reliance on the collective (organization) to which they belong. It is important for them to always be in step with the ideas proposed to them by their leaders.<BR/><BR/>The relationship they have with the organization is one of psychological dependency which requires an authoritarian structure. The obligate themselves to the organization in order to find fulfillment and then blindly champion its causes without regard to moral implications involved.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-12766378257470002082008-03-24T16:25:00.000-04:002008-03-24T16:25:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-22068219405740529782008-03-24T16:14:00.000-04:002008-03-24T16:14:00.000-04:00"I'm not a perfect person by any means but I do st..."I'm not a perfect person by any means but I do stand by my principles. "<BR/><BR/>So, you do have a dogma. Nice of you to realize it. Everyone has a dogma.<BR/><BR/>"From the very beginning there have been men like 'Howard Roarke'; men who had a deep desire to be a part of something where they find the illusion of personal value. They believe their personal worth is equal to that of the organization to which they belong. This is a dark path that takes away the freedom to be what you truly are as a person.'"<BR/><BR/>Just thought I'd save the time and deliver your ad hominem attack back at you, Howard. You know it's fun, but it's incredibly amazing at how well they apply to you! Of course, 'men who had a deep desire to be a part of something where they find the illusion of personal value.' will of COURSE be welcomed into the Grand Orient with open arms! Humorous. That's how you;ll get in, being full of illusion (perception's only illusion anyway).<BR/><BR/>'There's a hole in your theory tonight' Howie. It'll be there tomorrow.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-34360042240807346822008-03-24T15:58:00.000-04:002008-03-24T15:58:00.000-04:002 bowl:"Yes, TSMR,Please explain how your GL keeps...2 bowl:<BR/><BR/>"Yes, TSMR,<BR/>Please explain how your GL keeps its integrity by allowing you to spread Universal Brotherhood by associating with those women and clandestine masons?"<BR/><BR/>Universal Brotherhood can be and is spread through Masonry without letting everybody who buys GLOF regalia at WalMart into the meetings just on their word. I'm going to go with a dentist who has certification rather than one who has merely a drill. 'Nor do we know you will ever be'. Jeff does NOT, apparently, welcome the Grand Lodge of All England. Is that, or is it not, true Jeff?My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-49343355054013996752008-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:002008-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:00"a way where all who desire to be among us as a Fr..."a way where all who desire to be among us as a Freemason are welcomed."<BR/><BR/>Why aren't we welcoming all as human beings? I'll admit to not 'wanting all who desire to be among us as a Freemason' be considered a Freemason: <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.masonicinfo.com/york.htm" REL="nofollow">Malachi York</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.masonicinfo.com/allengland.htm" REL="nofollow">Grand Lodge of All England</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>Not to mention other scammers out there. Yes, there are unfortunately people who carry a membership card who are willing to break their oaths and defraud their brethren. They are found out and charged appropriately. They are NOT Masons-that is all. <BR/><BR/>Of course, some will allude to people keeping their word as not being progressive and new, but in a world where hardly anybody keeps their word, is it not refreshing to see people actually attempt to stand up for something? Progress is made by stiving to improve ourselves. There are tons of groups out there whereby people can improve themselves, some for women only, some for men only, and some mixed. Masonry is different. We don't fit in, and that's not wrong-it's exactly right. We shouldn't fit into society. We strive to improve ourselves. It's the right and responsibility of the individual to do so. The true secret of Freemasonry is not what is done in lodge, it's what is in the heart. <BR/><BR/>The ideas proposed sound nice, but so does sugar. JP decides that there are no 'ancient landmarks', so there are none. He decides there is no 'regular masonry', so there is none. Ludicrous. <BR/>Make it easy, and everyone will join in! Great plan, Jeff, but are they improving themselves? Perhaps. It's still not Masonry. Don't travel to Howard's ; 'hole of fear'. Your journey is your own.<BR/><BR/>Next, Jeff will be demanding membership in the Girl Scouts for everyone. Get raal.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-5634040652121487482008-03-24T12:06:00.000-04:002008-03-24T12:06:00.000-04:00Yes, TSMR,Please explain how your GL keeps its int...Yes, TSMR,<BR/>Please explain how your GL keeps its integrity by allowing you to spread Universal Brotherhood by associating with those women and clandestine masons?<BR/><BR/>The nerve of your Grand Lodge.....Tubal Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704479584240584425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-84677221969051088622008-03-24T12:02:00.000-04:002008-03-24T12:02:00.000-04:00"We" take vastly different obligations.Bro. TSMR -...<I>"We" take vastly different obligations.</I><BR/><BR/>Bro. TSMR - I'd forgotten that Canada uses Emulation. I scanned my copy, and indeed, there is no mention of "clandestine" or "women" to be found. <BR/><BR/>In the US, however, we primarily use some version of the Webb ritual. While you may find a handful of individual lodges that use older workings, most US Masons are cautioned - indeed, obligated - not to communicate Masonically with clandestines, and to avoid lodges which admit women. <BR/><BR/>So while I agree in principle that "it doesn't have to be like that", in practice, I'm afraid that we have what we have. <BR/><BR/>Which leads me to ask this: if your obligations do not preclude you from having Masonic intercourse with unrecognized Masons, then how does your GL maintain its integrity? How does it prevent you from visiting a LDH lodge or keep a PHO brother from visiting yours?Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-82021553431339740052008-03-23T21:55:00.000-04:002008-03-23T21:55:00.000-04:00There's a hole in the world tonight.There's a Clou...There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>There's a Cloud of fear and sorrow.<BR/>There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>Don't let there be a hole in the world tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>They say that anger is just love disappointed.<BR/>They say that love is just a state of mind,<BR/>but all this fighting over who will be anointed.<BR/>Oh how can people be so blind!<BR/><BR/>There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>There's a Cloud of fear and sorrow.<BR/>There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>Don't let there be a hole in the world tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>Oh they tell me there's a place over yonder,<BR/>cool water running through the burning sand,<BR/>until we we learn to love one another<BR/>we can never reach the promise land.<BR/><BR/>There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>There's a Cloud of fear and sorrow.<BR/>There's a hole in the world tonight.<BR/>Don't let there be a hole in the world tomorrow.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-51329109317877596862008-03-23T21:15:00.000-04:002008-03-23T21:15:00.000-04:00I'm not a perfect person by any means but I do sta...I'm not a perfect person by any means but I do stand by my principles. I believe there is a better way of doing things; a way where all who desire to be among us as a Freemason are welcomed. <BR/><BR/>I know there are those like Francois who will disagree with me, but that is their right to do so.<BR/><BR/>If you can agree with the goals and ideals of the Grand Orient system of Freemasonry, and you want a universal brother/sisterhood then you are welcome to join with us.<BR/><BR/>If you prefer a closed and isolated system that treats others as second class brothers and/or sisters then you have that opportunity as well.<BR/><BR/>You can quote Aristotle, Voltaire, or whoever you choose, but those are not the words of your heart, they belong to their respective author. If you want to be a real man, woman or Freemason you must stand alone with a single voice and say what you believe - what your heart tells you.<BR/><BR/>From the very beginning there have been men like 'Francois-Marie Arouet'; men who had a deep desire to be a part of something where they find the illusion of personal value. They believe their personal worth is equal to that of the organization to which they belong. This is a dark path that takes away the freedom to be what you truly are as a person. <BR/><BR/>They rely on wit, logic and rhetoric to confuse the unwary and lead them down the same path to dependency on the group or organization. <BR/><BR/>Freedom is never free. It usually comes at a high prioe, but for those who are willing to pay that price they find probity and honor.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-52914591334716039382008-03-23T20:16:00.000-04:002008-03-23T20:16:00.000-04:00"Brother François-Marie,Yes sir, I do subscribe to..."Brother François-Marie,<BR/>Yes sir, I do subscribe to objectivist philosophy. Is that a surprise?"<BR/><BR/>Not at all. I just offered an article in Michael Shermer's book that you might find interesting regarding Rand and her unfair 'trial' toward Branden. I do think you'd find the book interesting.<BR/><BR/>As for JP, I just would like to see what the details of him being kicked-out were. I'd also like to see the details of what is going on in Halcyon. Apparently, the call for 'openness' only applies to everyone else. That, and I think it's fun to rib him a bit. He's got a massive ego! ;,)My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-69397340238935103102008-03-23T20:09:00.000-04:002008-03-23T20:09:00.000-04:00Brother François-Marie, Yes sir, I do subscribe to...Brother François-Marie,<BR/> Yes sir, I do subscribe to objectivist philosophy. Is that a surprise?<BR/><BR/> What bone do you have to pick with Brother Peace? It almost seems personal.<BR/><BR/>BrandtJohn Galthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17673745675058971875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-41257464073580635922008-03-23T19:23:00.000-04:002008-03-23T19:23:00.000-04:00Don't pretend you have not sidestepped the issue o...Don't pretend you have not sidestepped the issue of why exactly you were expelled, Jeff. This is in keeping with your patterns of ignoring direct questions about that and the details of what is happening with Halcyon Lodge. Aren't you going to celebrate openness and transparency and share with the class? NO-of course you will not.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-52706075206884904072008-03-23T19:17:00.000-04:002008-03-23T19:17:00.000-04:00"No, I am not proposing a “Universalist” anything,..."No, I am not proposing a “Universalist” anything, nor am I proposing Utopia."<BR/><BR/>Check out the Universalist Church website, and clearly you can see that your statements match up with theirs:<BR/><BR/>http://www.uua.org/visitors/6798.shtml<BR/><BR/>Which is fine. Just because it's not specifically stated by you that your ideas are identical to the UU, they undeniably are.<BR/><BR/>"What I am proposing is tolerance, understanding and mutual respect."<BR/><BR/>We can have all of those, and who's to say we don't already? Certainly, not in some individual instances, but many groups have identifying, gender-specific rules. As stated before, a friend of mine recently joined a female-only group with liberal tendencies. What is wrong with that? Nothing. Some groups suggest you must have a college degree to join such as your RCGG. That sounds like being tolerant and respecting others in NO way. <BR/><BR/>"And, I’m not an “Objectivist”, even though I believe American Freemasonry could use a good dose of objective reality. "<BR/><BR/>Taking from your moniker, it can be assumed that you're at least partially a fan of Rand's. It's clear you have no sense of 'objective reality', even if you aren't an 'objectivist'. You take something address to Brother Brandt and egotistically suppose it was meant for you. <BR/><BR/>"Each must be governed by its own brothers/sisters."<BR/><BR/>This dogmatic statement on your part is correct. Why not let the Regular Lodges govern the way they wish? Of course, you'll never break out of your dogmas without being able to perceive things with an understanding of objective reality.<BR/><BR/>Of course, a Dogma indicates that the rules cannot never be broken. Of course, with your Masonry without Boundaries, oaths mean nothing. Keep it.My Name is Still Nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850691431078980626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15872122.post-30607670674189031312008-03-23T17:50:00.000-04:002008-03-23T17:50:00.000-04:00“Jeff's ideas are religious dogmatism.” - Françoi...“Jeff's ideas are religious dogmatism.” - François-Marie Arouet<BR/><BR/>“What Jeff is proposing is the Universalist Church.” - François-Marie Arouet<BR/><BR/>No, I am not proposing a “Universalist” anything, nor am I proposing Utopia. What I am proposing is tolerance, understanding and mutual respect. There is a clear need for three distinct types of Freemasonry: Male, Female, and Mixed-Gender. Each must be governed by its own brothers/sisters. Out of these three groups there may other subdivisions based on their own unique philosophies.<BR/><BR/>And, I’m not an “Objectivist”, even though I believe American Freemasonry could use a good dose of objective reality. <BR/><BR/>Also, based on your reasoning American Freemasonry would be a dogmatic cult. Perhaps it has become one thanks to people like you.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.com