There's a new sheriff in town, boys. Picture me as a cross between Paul Newman and Walter Brennan, both of whom played Judge Roy Bean to perfection in the moving pictures.
I've grown weary of the slugfests between the few of you who continually trash this blog with your "my Masonry is better than your Masonry" rants. As Stephen Stills sang, "Nobody's right if everyone's wrong."
If you want to brawl, do it here, in the comments section to this post. Beat the hell out of each other, bang beer mugs over each others' heads, have gunfights at high noon, shoot each other in the back, whatever.
Just do it here, and only here, in this post. It's all yours. Go ahead and bookmark the permalink, and then come out a-blazin' with your six-shooter.
But consider every other article henceforth as being "west of the Pecos," where my law rules. I'm gonna run a clean town, even if I have to get Marshall Dillon and the entire Earp and Cartwright clans to back me up.
I've received far too many emails from former readers of The Taper telling me they won't participate any longer in the comments sections, or sometimes even read the articles, because of all the un-civil, un-masonic loads of bison-dung being dumped here regularly in the comments sections. No matter what the topic of the article, the comments deteriorate into nothing but pushing and shoving and "Oh, yeah? Sez who!?"
After two-plus years of an open range, I'm homesteading this place by putting up fences on this here Ponderosa. Even libertarianism has its limits. This post is your corral. Muddy it up, bloody it up. Just stay inside the fence.
— W.S., Sheriff of These Here Parts
Masons | Burning Taper | BurningTaper.com
Umm... just where was it that you wanted us to go, again? I wasn't quite clear on that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm puttin' ma claim in above the border... east of montreal... Anyone wanna challenge me I'll have ma 45 at the ready. Don't mess wit' me Boy!
ReplyDeleteLOL
We meet on the level and we part on the level or your goin' down.
Wow... This is the makings of a masonic western right here.
'yep....(spits into spitoon)...'TING!
ReplyDelete“Most controversies would soon be ended, if those engaged in them would first accurately define their terms, and then adhere to their definitions.”
ReplyDeleteTryon Edwards
American Theologian, 1809-1894
No fightin' from me! Unless of course you jump the fence and threaten me and mine. Then all bets are off. Truth is, I can find little integrity left anywhere. Its easier to passive agressively piss on my shrubs and shout epitaphs at the homestead while no one is home than really speaking your mind face to face.
ReplyDeleteSince my recent comment has gotten lost in the shuffle, I am gowana park it here in the corral! Yeha!
ReplyDeleteHere we go again!
Widow's Son receives recognition for his writing and suddenly his detractors come scurrying out of their dark corners to launch viscous personal attacks. Here's what Ed King wrote on his blog yesterday.
I am not the only person who sees this for what it is. Masonic Traveler responded to King's article, too.
Mr. King, you and your kind remind me of a petulant child who throws a rock and hides his hand while declaring "I didn't do anything!"
Is this what you have learned at the altar of your regular Freemansonry?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEd King's article rocks! Not really, but it was better than Jeff Peace's 'pieces'.
ReplyDeleteIf you didn't care what happened to me,
ReplyDeleteAnd I didn't care for you,
We would zig zag our way through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain.
Wondering which of the buggars to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing.
Big man, pig man, ha ha charade you are.
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha charade you are.
And when your hand is on your heart,
You're nearly a good laugh,
Almost a joker,
With your head down in the pig bin,
Saying "Keep on digging."
Pig stain on your fat chin.
What do you hope to find.
When you're down in the pig mine.
You're nearly a laugh,
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha charade you are.
You fucked up old hag, ha ha charade you are.
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass.
You're nearly a good laugh,
Almost worth a quick grin.
You like the feel of steel,
You're hot stuff with a hatpin,
And good fun with a hand gun.
You're nearly a laugh,
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.
Hey you, Whitehouse,
Ha ha charade you are.
You house proud town mouse,
Ha ha charade you are
You're trying to keep our feelings off the street.
You're nearly a real treat,
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
.....! .....! .....! .....!
You gotta stem the evil tide,
And keep it all on the inside.
Mary you're nearly a treat,
Mary you're nearly a treat
But you're really a cry.
ou know that I care what happens to you,
And I know that you care for me.
So I don't feel alone,
Or the weight of the stone,
Now that I've found somewhere safe
To bury my bone.
And any fool knows a dog needs a home,
A shelter from pigs on the wing.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete'As Stephen Stills sang, "Nobody's right if everyone's wrong."
ReplyDeleteWasn't Stephen Stills wrong when he sang this? Or perhaps everybody wasn't wrong, so someone was right? Or perhaps nobody was wrong because everybody was right? Anyway, it's a lame song no matter how you slice it.
I know what you're thinking-and no, I don't have anything better to do until this head cold is gone and I can get back to work.
Well, thought I would weigh in on the discussion and post a few thoughts that have been lingering in my mind for some time:
ReplyDeleteThe structure of a prison is designed to keep people in.
The structure of a traditional lodge is designed to keep people out.
What is the difference between a prison that keeps people in from a prison that keeps people out?
Is this a logical or defensible model upon which to build a global community?
How can a lodge be devoted to improving the conditions of humanity while creating systems of separation and division?
Is this thinking not synonymous with systems of racial segregation that defend the mantra, "separate but equal"?
Why should we regard such thoughts any differently when applied to other criteria such as heredity, social or economic status, religious affiliation, culture, gender, sexuality, able-bodiedness, intelligence, etc.?
How can such an ideology be rationally and reasonably justified?
Where do we go from here?
- Bro. John Daniele (igl@aokw.org)
"nought from without can harm you; fear only that which is within yourself"
ReplyDeleteTrue Masonry has, for ages, held aloft the torchlight of Toleration, Equity and Fraternity.
The bigoted sectarian, whoever he may be, divides the world into two classes: those who, with zeal and blind faith, accept his dogmas and those who do not.
If, lacking a knowledge of the profound meaning of Masonic symbolism and its transcendent interest and importance, Masons have allowed the whole organization not only to fail in all real progress but to degenerate, that is indeed a reproach!
The Mysteries(freemasonry) had for their object, as they still have, the uniting of the awakened(Spiritual Initiated) men into a Universal Brotherhood in which right (true kindness of heart governed by exact justice) is might; a Brotherhood that exercises benevolence, practices virtue (without a smug complacency) and the arts, and studies coordinately the laws of both Nature and God (as they are and not as foolish man would have them be), ready to accept them as of equal importance in the life of man while on the earth plane.
ReplyDeleteJester's rule!
Masonry preaches no new religion; it but reiterates the Commandment announced by Jesus, which also was announced by every great reformer of religion since history began. Drop the theological barnacles from the religion of Jesus, as taught by him, and by the Essenes and Gnostics of the centuries, and it becomes(the Mysticism of) Masonry. Masonry in its purity, derived as it is from the old Kabalah as a part of the great universal Wisdom Religion of the remotest antiquity, stands squarely for the unqualified and universal Brotherhood of man, in all times and in every age(except today in american masonry). To Christianize Masonry(Knight Templar degrees) or to narrow it to the sectarian bonds of any creed, is not only to dwarf and belittle it but must inevitably result, as among warring sects has always resulted with religion, in setting brother against brother, and lodge against lodge!
ReplyDeleteDr. Buck
the Mysticism of Masonry can recognize neither color nor creed(except in southern USA), and in that lies its safety and through this will it gradually bring about the Universal Brotherhood of Man. Not only does Mysticism teach this but all those who would belong to the Brotherhood(Jester's and southern US Masons) must practice it!
SQ, et al;
ReplyDeleteI found Br. King's article to be well written, and not offensive at all. He disagrees with certain bloggers writing NOTHING but negativity, as it is not useful, though it certainly does tend to focus the light on the writer to be incessantly promoting the antimasonic party line.
Nothing Br. King wrote referenced any one particular forum, and as Br. Tubalcain420 is so fond of writing, if the shoe fits... wear it.
If you feel his comments about incessant negativity and no real support for freemasonry fit this forum, then that's a decision you have to make and an allusion you have to own. Br. King was, as always, insightful and on point.
I heartily commend all his writings, for, while I may not always agree with him, or with any of you here, I do support your right to say what you think... I ALSO reserve the right as a mason and an American, to disagree with you.
Just saying...
Dear Mr. Dunn,
ReplyDeleteI shall repeat myself again and post a comment here on the BT I made on Masonic Traveler's blog, it seems appropriate;
"Mr. Dunn, I am confused. Do you represent the Lollipop League or are your a complacent Eloi just waiting to be devoured by the hungry regular Freemasonry Morlocks?"
Blind unquestioning faith in ANYTHING is only for the mediocre, we are given intelligence, logic and reason to ascertain for ourselves what is true and what is false.
If you do not see the fault in Mr. King's little bit of spiteful writing then I am afraid you are blind.
So Mote it Be
Bro. Ed King wrote on his blog:
ReplyDelete>Frankly, I see him as a pitifully
>lonely soul, spiritually empty –
>grasping for attention in the only
>way he has managed to find.” The Old
>Webmaster shook his head: slowly,
>sadly.
Perhaps Bro. Ed King should have contemplated the words of Buddha before posting such remarks:
"Let not one seek other's faults, things left done and undone by others, but one's own deeds done and undone"
What I've always found rather strange about Freemasonry is the absence of a certain concept that is rather common in most other similarly oriented societies outside of Freemasonry, that is;
The practice of discernment is more valuable and meaningful than the practice of judgement.
- Bro. John Daniele
Bro. Theron - While I understand your opinion on the subject, I do have to point out that in King's 4th paragraph, he makes a very specific reference to something that he's also written about on his main website. The reference is clear, and it's not a case of "if the shoe fits." King was specifically targeting WS. Totally uncalled for.
ReplyDeleteBro. John -
The practice of discernment is more valuable and meaningful than the practice of judgement.
Well spoken, bro! Words to live by for all of us.
Br SQ
ReplyDeleteI think the reference you are reaching for is MORLOCK, not morloi... regardless, I am certainly no pollyanna. On the other hand, I look for what is good and decent rather than digging for what is corrupt or might appear, or might be made to appear as corrupt.
I do not drag out the dead and decaying and try to make a meal of it, nor try to get others to partake of a decaying meal. I look for and dine on what is wholesome and fit, and I work on polishing my ashlar (g-d knows it's rough enough in places).
Nor do I waste time defaming people I disagree with, as seems to be the general practice of some on this forum.
If you see Br. King's references as directed at WS, then YOU own that. He certainly may have been, g-d knows there are certainly enough masons who see WS and this blog as nothing but a pit of darkness.
When has WS ever had anything good to say about freemasonry? One in a hundred posts? Maybe? This brother positively revels in the negative, he savors, like a fine wine, anything he can find that casts a shadow, no matter how small, on freemasonry.
Its not WONDER the postings here are so dark and despicable, so personally debasing... WS encourages it by the very manner in which he runs the forum. Now, if you want to make a meal for yourself of dark and decaying issues, then knock yourself out.
All I am saying is this bleak and despairing thing WS seems to find and some of the commenters here seem to revel in is NOT the freemasonry I find and enjoy. I love freemasonry, and the positive difference it has made in my life.
Even you, Br. SQ, I love as a brother, even as you despise me for daring to love and enjoy freemasonry. I make no excuses for the brothers who have failed the teachings of the craft... nor do I make excuses for those that want to do nothing but tear the craft apart with unending whining and complaining.
I know Br. King, and I find him a fine and upstanding man, who speaks his mind, yet tries to do it kindly. I do not see him making accusations against WS, I see him making general comments that may hit home for some.
He IS right, though. Perhaps that is why you are so upset with him? This blog is nothing but darkness, and it has so much more potential than just a fountain of india ink, splattering us all indiscriminately with all manner of useless accusations.
I would rather focus on what is right and good. Perhaps THAT is why I am finding masonry to be full of good and honorable men, trustworthy, and upright men, and why I love it so much.
its not that I am blind to the very very few bad things in it, but that because I see so very much overwhelming good in it, that I can work in it to change the few things I see that are challenging.
I am not a Shriner, i am not a Scottish Rite nor York Rite Mason, nor Jester nor Tall Cedars, nor Rite of the Rose Cross of Gold. I am a Regular Blue Lodge mason... and I love my freemasonry.
I'll admit to being a bit rough around the corners when it comes to people insulting regular masonry. Yes, my hackles can be raised. Yes, I've raised it to the level and exceeded those levels often displayed here by people who feel fit to call us 'freemorons' (one posted here recently). I admit I have been wrong in my dealings here and apologize for when I've been out of hand.
ReplyDeleteLike Brother Dunn, I am a Master Mason and nothing more. I am fallible, perhaps beyond some. I sincerely LOVE Freemasonry and my brothers. We DO good things. As mentioned, I have spoken to men and women online who are from other bodies and enjoyed the conversation. I still have never come across the kind of anger and hatred often portrayed here. It is my failure that I have participated in it myself. For that, I apologize. I have acted poorly, no matter what was in my heart. I have acted out of a sense of defending my brothers, whether or not I was successful.
"Nor do I waste time defaming people I disagree with, as seems to be the general practice of some on this forum." - Theron
ReplyDeleteLet's start by being honest Theron. You have lashed out at Halcyon and defamed the brothers there because you disagree with them. You are as guilty of this as everyone else.
Let's start with the fact that you're no angel either.
If we want to banish Hate-Masonry we must begin by acknowledging that all of us have played a part in it.
All of us have been duped into playing Ed King's little game of fomenting hatred among brothers.
By recognizing this we can rid ourselves of it, and starting to work together.
Francois,
ReplyDeleteI don't even know you. Why are we fighting? We've made a personal issue out of an ideological one.
We (all of us) need to see this for what it is. The GO has no fight with the state GL's. The state GL's have no fight with the GO. We're creating a fight by allowing ourselves to be duped into fighting against brothers with whom we have no real issue.
Last night I realized that we are doing exactly what the real Hate-Masons want.
Looking back at Francois' posts from long ago he wasn't a Hate-Mason, but became one by becoming embroiled in a fight that ultimately started with...
Guess who....
ED KING
If you distill all of this back to its origins long ago it was Ed King who started all the negative rhetoric. He's managed to get good brothers expelled and turn us against one another.
Not anymore.
I don't think it's anyone's little personal game...this hatemongering seems to be a collaborative effort.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that bothers me most about all of this is that I see the light and the truth in what each of you is saying, and I see that there's hurt in those places where there's darkness. You all ... A L L ... have a vital role to play in shaping Masonry today and tomorrow. You all have something vital to contribute to the discussion.
I know this sounds like an awful lot of 'aw, can't we just get along?' but I can't help it. I just feel like we're at a pivotal moment in a proverbial tower of Babel, when maybe we all start understanding each other, not because we can all speak the same language, but because we can respect our collective differences.
We are all the dark, and we are all the light.
GAOTU bless you all.
Bro. Theron Dunn said:
ReplyDelete>When has WS ever had anything good
>to say about freemasonry? One in a
>hundred posts? Maybe? This brother
>positively revels in the negative,
>he savors, like a fine wine,
>anything he can find that casts a
>shadow, no matter how small, on
>freemasonry.
There are many paths to enlightenment my dear Bro. Theron Dunn!
Perhaps Freemasons would benefit from understanding the principle of equanimity! Afterall, the attainment of equanimity is a prerequisite to acceptance as an initiate into Kabbalah -- a system of knowledge that has greatly influenced the character and symbolism of Freemasonry.
Simply put, equanimity is the ability to be wholly and completely impartial and indifferent to the adorations or insults of others. The soul should be indifferent to the good and bad things of this world - it is then that one can examine truth in whatever form it comes.
We must tread upon both paths (the right hand, as well as the left hand) in order to achieve knowledge of the divine.
Rest assured, when a person is ready to experience and attain knowledge and wisdom from the path of Good or Evil, whether that person would like to or not, the universe will respond accordingly.
What then, is the purpose of praising one for speaking of light and disparaging another for speaking of darkness when they are both speaking of the Truth?
Contemplate the meaning of 'darkness visible' in the third degree Bro. Theron Dunn. Just as light does not refer to physical light, darkness does not refer to physical darkness.
Darkness is light of a different nature.
- Bro. John Daniele
"I don't even know you. Why are we fighting? We've made a personal issue out of an ideological one."
ReplyDeleteI agree; we do not even know one another. I have been trying to understand, and in that attempt I have grasped at straws.
When we see horses on the hills, we circle the wagons and put the women and children under 'em. When I felt that my Masonry was being attacked, I wanted to do whatever I could to build a fire-line.
I personally want to protect the Masonry that has been so fulfilling for me, and that I believe in my could be fulfilling for others. I have acted out, and out of character to do so.
I understand that the Grand Orient is not a threat to regular Masonry, and can be a positive force in the world. I will not sit in lodge with any group that would cause a violation of my oath. This might seem unenlightened, but let me explain. I have spent enough time around people who are not naturally given to honesty that I try to be as honest a person as I can. I am secretive about myself, but I endeavor to be honest. I am sick of a world where dishonesty is the rule rather than the exception. We see this rampant right now. While I truthfully cannot say I never lie, I can truthfully say I try not to.
The jesters, if they are guilty, are just a sad example of a far larger issue in society. It is disheartening, but in no way affects my responsibilities to myself and others as a Mason. It is unfortunate what has occurred in WV and Georgia as well. To me, these places are foreign lands. That's probably not right, but the way I see it. It's like being a patriot, but not being happy with the government. I strive to change what I can and to know what I cannot change.
I am not pleased with allegations against regular Freemasonry. The Masons I know are good and honest people for the most part. I find some of the crimes some of the jesters are accused of entirely inexcusable and unmasonic, and truly hope they are not true. I also truly hope any wrongdoing in our fraternity is corrected.
In explanation, not in defense of my actions, I have a trio of little spots called plaques on my brain (the cause being Multiple Sclerosis). These contribute to anger issues. If they flair up, it is almost invariably in this type of environment. I would far prefer it here than to display itself as physical violence against another (which, thankfully, I do not do unless attacked). It makes me look bad, I know, but nobody gets hurt.
Does that excuse me from the table? No, it does not. Because it is occasionally more difficult for me to control my passions only means I have to work harder at it. That is all.
Last night, I went about posting stuff just for spite. I have a nasty head cold that exacerbates the spots on my brain. For this, I apologize.
I prefer to endeavor to make the world better than to fight. The best men are Quixotes in my opinion. We fight, though the fight probably cannot be won. Idealists rarely accomplish their goals entirely, but all the good in the world has been because idealists strived for something they didn't quite reach. Thank you for extending the olive branch. Keep dreaming the impossible dream!
"The thing that bothers me most about all of this is that I see the light and the truth in what each of you is saying, and I see that there's hurt in those places where there's darkness. You all ... A L L ... have a vital role to play in shaping Masonry today and tomorrow. You all have something vital to contribute to the discussion." - Trevor Twining
ReplyDeleteThat's what I believe to. Good Masons from all obediences (GL's) have much to contribute. The mainstream GL's will continue to appeal to a certain demographic, and the more liberal GL's to yet another. Both can and will provide Masonic ideology and brotherhood, thus broadening our brotherhood beyond what it has ever been before.
Bro. Franois,
ReplyDeleteNo apology is needed or necessary. We all acted poorly (especially me). The important thing is that we all learned something - a truth that we should not forget.
While I know that you cannot accept my offer, I extend it to you in the spirit of brotherhood - as a vision for the future.
You are always welcome to attend Sirius or Halcyon.
Thank you Howard for your invitation. If we ever do get the chance, the beer still stands as well! I'll only pay for good stuff though-I refuse to let you order a Bud Lite. ;,)
ReplyDeleteI must, MUST make a comment here. Does anyone else find it humorous that the ONE thread that is SPECIFICALLY for fighting is the one that is seeming to engender a large amount of goodwill? Are we, once more, ignoring the topic at hand?
My Name is Still Nobody wrote: "The jesters, if they are guilty, are just a sad example of a far larger issue in society.... I find some of the crimes some of the jesters are accused of entirely inexcusable and unmasonic, and truly hope they are not true."
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify: There are two different cases pending involving Jesters that I've talked about recently on The Taper.
Jesters (and Masons) Ron Tills, a retired state judge, Michael Stebick, a law clerk, and John Trowbridge, a retired police chief, were under federal investigation for violation of the Mann Act, that is, for transporting a hooker to a Jester convention from New York to Kentucky. Trowbridge pleaded guilty last week to that charge. He was the owner of the motorhome the hooker was transported in. Tills and Stebick are under investigation for having allegedly been along on that ride, but I have not seen any reports yet saying they've been indicted, only investigated. Both of them abruptly resigned their government jobs a few weeks ago when news of the investigation broke.
The second case involving Jesters is a federal slander/libel case. No Jester is accused of any criminal wrongdoing. They are listed as federal witnesses for the defendant.
Br. Howard Roark;
ReplyDeleteYou note that I have not been above the fray, especially when it comes to Halcyon. Of course I do, but I have not been attacking individuals, only the situation, as I do not know who is, if anyone is, guilty of anything.
As I noted when we talked, I will, for now, reserve my judgment of the actions there until the courts have spoken on the issue. It IS still being litigated.
What I stand on today is that regardless of the real facts, it LOOKS really bad, in fact, it stinks. Even if the grand lodge of Ohio, as you state, approved the transfer to the charity, the posts of the ex brethren from Halcyon make it look entirely different.
I am making no judgments, I am, in fact, deliberately not posting about the issue on any level... thanks.
As for being an angel, I have not claimed to be an angel. As for defaming brothers, which brother have I defamed? Who have I named as being guilty? I have not been as kind as I might, and I think I have apologized for that, very publicly.
I did not defame them, I posted on the situation as facts were available, and even used the former master of Halcyon Lodge's words to SHOW how bad it looked and to show their actions.
Yes, I still disagree with their actions, but I am not a member of the Grand Lodge of Ohio, nor a member of Halcyon Lodge, nor, frankly, their judge. I dislike the situation intensely, and feel that if the grand lodge did approve the transfer and the creation of the charity, that there would be letters to that effect which would have resolved this LONG ago.
None have been produced or offered, yet again, it is not my job, or place, to judge them and their actions. The courts and the grand lodge of Ohio will handle that.
Yet, I am the one that has taken MANY personal attacks from men who claim to be masons. There is still one how posts here who still deliberately addresses me as MR... to be as offensive as possible, and still claims to be a mason.
Just because I love freemasonry, and the freemasonry that I find, I have been attacked and even here, recently, called a "Morloi" by someone who claims to be a mason. Is that the masonry you favor?
No, I know its not, you have said so, and wrote so here, today. You are right, its time to put the swords and other sharp instruments away and start acting as brothers. We may disagree, but even you and I, on seemingly opposite poles of Free-masonry, can still be brothers and treat each other with respect.
Francois:
My brother, I have absolutely no problem with anyone writing anything they want... I do reserve the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE as a mason, a man and an American, to disagree with what anyone posts.
My point is that anyone that is incessantly negative, as we see here on this blog, is missing the point of freemasonry by focusing on nonsense, instead of looking for the reality of freemasonry.
Of course there will be a few who just should never have made it past the west gate, and some few who learned nothing at the altar... any group that is over 300 years old and has the better part of 6 million members (if you count every single person that claims to be a mason, regardless of regularity) is going to have a FEW that are problematic.
We have a few Grand Masters that don't seem to get it... and at least one blogger that I am not really sure understands freemasonry. There is hope in my heart for all of them.
Every man can change, this side of the grave, and freemasonry offers him a path to do that, to make himself a better man, if he only takes up the challenge.
Incessant negativity is NOT journalism.
At least not in my opinion. after all, I am only a publisher and a writer with over 25 years experience. What do I know?
Better than those, I am a Freemason, and I love Freemasonry and my brothers in the craft, regardless of their opinions.
Yes, even you SQ.
Brother Dunn,
ReplyDeleteI certainly did not intend that you and I should arrive at different ends of the discussion. Having read your thoughts here and earlier elsewhere, I admire you greatly as a Mason, and our opinions on this matter seem to me to be very close. I liked very much what you wrote here:
"Better than those, I am a Freemason, and I love Freemasonry and my brothers in the craft, regardless of their opinions."
This is the truth in brotherhood, is it not? I disagree with my biological brothers on many matters, but I love them with all my heart despite these disagreements. We may agree or disagree, but peace and harmony may and should still prevail. We agree to be cemented by virtue despite what may fall across our paths.
S&F
Can the hate stop? Can the name calling stop?
ReplyDeleteWho do I call upon for assistance?
O.L.M.G.I.S.T.H.F.T.W.S.
Brother David,
ReplyDeleteIt looks like its starting to stop. A tourniquet will help stanch the bleeding.
S&F
Can we all agree that the name calling, personal attacks, twisting facts, and defaming of each others institutions is un-Masonic and un-brotherly?
ReplyDeleteCan we also agree that in the spirit of Freemasonry we should treat each other as brothers and show due respect for each other's obedience?
Woke up this morning, put on my Sunday shoes.
ReplyDeleteDon't ask me why, it's just the nature of my groove.
I larged down the boulevard, came under attack,
But I rocked them senseless, 'cause honey it's tight like that.
I hung a left down to Lemans' Avenue,
Stagger Lees everywhere, trying to bring me doom, oh no.
And that Old Scratch, he tried to purchase this soul,
That don't confront me, 'cause I'm never in the need of a payroll.
Heck, yeah.
Amen, do it all again.
Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham.
Spit shine and a three piece suit,
Good Lord I got to thank you 'cause you do it like you do.
Hallelujah, all the people in the back.
Hallelujah, it's tight like that.
Hallelujah, all the people up front.
Tight like that, rapture, rock.
And all you know-it-alls with politic views.
Ideals don't situate themselves in His groove.
So if you want to know, you just got to ask.
But if you don't lose that skin, you'll never be tight like that.
Watch me work, yeah.
Amen, do it all again.
Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham.
Spit shine and a three piece suit,
Good Lord I got to thank you 'cause you do it like you do.
Hallelujah, all the people in the back.
Hallelujah, it's tight like that.
Hallelujah, all the people up front.
Tight like that, rapture, rock.
Don't try to sell me your New Age guru troubles.
'Cause I'm already reeling doing that good time gospel shuffle.
And all your thumpings about some Armageddon,
Ain't no big deal, 'cause I already hang with Him.
Amen, do it all again.
Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham.
Spit shine and a three piece suit,
Good Lord I got to thank you 'cause you do it like you do.
Hallelujah, all the people in the back.
Hallelujah, it's tight like that.
Hallelujah, all the people up front.
Tight like that, rapture, rock.
Oh yeah, tight like that.
Honey it's tight like that.
Honey it's tight like that.
Honey it's tight like that.
Can I get a witness for the rock of ages?
For the rock of ages?
Can I get a witness for the rock of ages?
For the rock of ages?
http://www.texnews.com/1998/2002/texas/texas_Sex-abuse920.html
ReplyDeleteFriday, September 20, 2002
Sex-abuse settlements may lead Masonic school to close
DALLAS (AP) - A financial crisis caused in part by at least $6.9 million paid to settle lawsuits alleging sex abuse at the Masonic Grand Lodge of Texas' Masonic Home and School has led to a convention this weekend where masons will decide the school's fate.
Masons have been invited to a rare state membership convention Saturday in Waco, where they will decide whether to close the Fort Worth school or dip into its $50 million endowment fund to continue running it.
Texas Masons Board president Joseph Regian, responding to questions about the lawsuits, said the settlements have nearly drained cash reserves and account for "50 percent" of the financial problems.
Masonic leaders have mailed thousands of fund-raising letters seeking more than $6 million in donations to make up shortfalls attributed primarily to declining donations and bequests. The letters did not mention the settlements.
Regian told The Dallas Morning News for its Friday editions that confidentiality agreements had prevented him from mentioning the settlements as a major cause of the shortfall to the group's 122,000 Texas members or discussing abuse allegations at the school dating to the 1970s.
The Masons, a fraternal civic organization that has hundreds of thousands of members worldwide, supports dozens of boarding schools across the country and a network of boys clubs.
Public allegations of abuse at the boarding schools or within the Masons organization are uncommon, a check of news archives shows.
Regian and school officials said that students at the Fort Worth school are not abused and that since 1999, administrative safeguards, including background checks of staff members, have been in place to better monitor staff and protect children.
The boarding school serves about 135 students and employs 85 adult "house parents" who live on campus. It was established more than 100 years ago and now operates as a 206-acre nonprofit school district that is not subject to state child welfare inspections.
Masons officials declined to disclose the amount paid starting in 1999 to settle a lawsuit alleging that school caretakers were permitted to sexually abuse about a dozen students.
One sentence in the 600-page Masons financial statement for fiscal 1999 reports $6.9 million in settlements for litigation "in which the negligent hiring, supervision and retention of child care providers was alleged."
The 1999 lawsuit -- which is sealed except for the original complaint -- was filed against Texas Masons and former school director James Stewart on behalf of former student body president Scott Bickle.
Bickle's lawsuit involved at least a dozen other students, his former attorney said. Stewart left the school shortly before Bickle's lawsuit was settled. The lawsuit alleged that school and Masons leaders "had a significant history of documented child sexual abuse at their facility dating as far back as the 1970s" and refused to seek criminal charges "in every confirmed instance of sexual abuse/assault of children residing at the Masonic Home."
Bickle, now a college student living in Plano, declined to discuss his lawsuit or the settlement. He said he feared angering the Masons, who he said still support him with scholarships and other resources.
Bickle's former attorney, Timothy G. Chovanec of Fort Worth, also declined to discuss the lawsuit, citing the confidentiality agreements. He praised the Masons for taking positive steps to protect children since the settlement.
A separate 1994 lawsuit was filed on behalf of former school employee Bryan Butler and 19 children who lived at the home. Butler, who could not be located to comment, said in his lawsuit that he was fired within two weeks of reporting allegations of physical abuse and neglect and sexual abuse of children at the school.
Fort Worth police began an investigation at the Masonic Home and School in 1994. No criminal charges resulting from that investigation could be found.
Regian, again citing the sealed records, declined to say whether any of the allegations in the lawsuits had merit.
Okay, bad things are happening. We already know that, but this is a small group of people perpetrating these acts.
ReplyDeleteHere in Georgia there are about 45,000 Masons. Out of that there are about one hundred rotten apples that make everyone else look bad.
Mr. Dunn, I am growing weary of pointing out your inconsistencies but here we go one more time.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote in your comment for the corral:
"Nor do I waste time defaming people I disagree with, as seems to be the general practice of some on this forum."
Yet earlier on a Masonic blog, you know "steak and sizzle, you wrote:
"What I notice most about Smoldering Stub (your charming nickname for the BT) is that it offers NOTHING positive, nothing uplifting, nothing... useful. Any moron can carp, whine and complain. It takes a mason, a man with a heart, who has learned the spiritual lessons of the craft to actually be... charitable."
Oh but there is more enlightening and insightful commentary:
Dogs urinate on fire hydrants to mark the territory, and some use markers and paint to mark up that which they do nothing to support or build."
More incisive commentary from Mr. Dunn:
"The smoldering stub has become nothing... as the ritual says, sounding brass... all noise and no substance... speaking of all sizzle and no steak, the stub has proven that is has nothing but feces to throw at good masons."
Then as if this is not enough to cause a fire storm Theron you then come over the BT and accuse the participants of unmason like conduct:
"Nice going you guys, proving the saying is true. You really can't stand insightful, incisive commentary, can you? Pearls before swine, is, I believe, the apropos comment regarding your typically negative and unmasonic commentary."
When you get a dose of your own medicine you write:
"Now, y'all can either discuss issues, which is what great minds do, or you can continue to slander an defame me, which is what small minds do."
Now Theron, my question to you is; are you a man of conviction or a "do as I say, not as I do" kinda guy? Mr. Dunn, what have we to learn by your example?
PS,
My Morlock and Eloi references were accurate, maybe you need to bone up on your H. G. Wells or wear glasses when you read the comments.
Respectfully,
SQ
Just another "isolated" incident
ReplyDeletelol
NEBRASKA GRAND LODGE A.F. & A.M. KEEPS SECRETS FROM ITS MEMBERS
http://www.vansopinion.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=167
For ten years, I have waited with patience and withheld release of information about an organization for which, in general, I have the deepest personal respect. - Freemasonry. There was a time when a man could trust his wallet, his wife and even his life in the care of a "Brother Master Mason." Such is still true today in the case of 99% of the Masons in the world. It is that 1%, or perhaps less who, like "a bad apple in a barrel", are willing, by and through their careless, greedy, self-serving and ego driven motives and agendas, to spoil and corrupt the Masonic Fraternity in Nebraska for the rest. They are contributing, in my opinion, to the overall decline in membership in Freemasonry in the Cornhusker State and perhaps the entire nation. They do not abide by and enforce "Masonic Law." By their misconduct, they are a disgrace to the millions of men who have in the past and who still revere the "landmarks" of the fraternity by upholding its moral, ethical and law abiding teachings.
When I became a Mason, I knew that at least five generations of men in my paternal linage had been members of the fraternity. Sixty-three years before I became Master of my lodge, my father's father was Master of his lodge in another state. For decades, I collected books and articles concerning the Masonic Fraternity and made a detailed study of such. Notwithstanding the fact I was probably as well read on Masonic subjects as 90 % of the men within the organization who would confer upon me the Entered Apprentice Degree (the first degree of the Blue Lodge), when I "knocked at the door" to seek admission that first night, there was awesome amount of anticipation and pride knowing I was about to do what generations of men in my family had done. What men like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and scores of others who were the "founders" of our country had done in much the same way.
I had waited all those years because the denomination of my Christian Faith did not and does not knowingly allow its members to participate in Freemasonry or any of its appendant bodies.
Having been a member of the Order of DeMolay (an organization for young men sponsored by Masonic organizations) in my younger days and knowing, first hand, what was and was not taught in that young man's fraternity, I could not see how my denomination or any other could honestly and scripturally be opposed to such. Having at the time likely lived over half of the expected span of my life at the time in accordance with the teachings of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, I chose not to break the chain of generations of men in my family. I became a Mason.
After becoming a Master Mason and being the last in my lodge to do "memory work" the "old fashioned way" (like my Dad and his forbearers had done before him), three short years later, I was honored by the brethren of my lodge and was elected to serve as its Master. During the fewer than ten years I remained a member of the fraternity, it was my distinct honor to make or participating in the making of over two dozen outstanding men in the community Master Masons. At least three of which were members of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and I believe two of those were concurrently members of the KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS!
It has long been and still is my ardent desire in life to participate in the removal of the barriers which constrain Missouri Synod Lutheran and Catholic men from openly participating in the fraternal joys and wonderful lessons which are the essence of Freemasonry. Much more on that subject in later articles.
As I write this article, The Grand Lodge Ancient Free and Accepted Masons is meeting in Kearney, Nebraska for its 149th Annual Communication (Meeting). In attendance will be the officers and secretaries of most, if not all, of the subordinate (local) lodges of that body. For the uninitiated, but curious, what will go on and is going on is introductions ad nauseam of folks having magnificent earthly titles bestowed on them by a variety of Masonic and appendant organizations in Nebraska. There will also be men with similar titles from other states. There will be a lot of good fellowship followed by a well orchestrated brief business meeting. There are "Workshops" and meetings scheduled which the "faithful" will attend, but there will be the ever present "hospitality suite" for fellowship and imbibing of "adult beverages" which in the past has been more enticing than the scheduled meetings.
A large portion of the three day session AND ANNUAL DUES MONEY PAID IN TO THE GRAND LODGE BY NEBRASKA LODGE MEMBERS, will be consumed by lavish meals and hospitality rooms where only the invited "Dignitaries" and their guests will be wined and dined. It seems curious the fraternity which forbids alcohol consumption in its temples has no problem with popping corks and bending elbows when the "big wigs" of Nebraska entertain the visiting "big wigs" of other jurisdictions.
In 1990, Tom Tye the 123rd Grand Master, then a Kearney, Nebraska attorney, was reported to have spent $68 per invited guest for the catered meal they were served at his "Grand Master's Banquet." He was reported to have spent over $900 on booze just to flaunt his authority and salve his ego. Word has it a minor rebellion followed when Tye presented the tab to be reimbursed for his lavish expenditures. I heard he was not reimbursed by the Grand Lodge for all of the alcohol he served up at the function. As I recall, that was the first year I attended a Grand Lodge annual meeting. What a way for a relatively "new guy" to obtain an image of what really goes on at annual meetings.
In 1993, I was honored and recognized by the 127th Grand Master Donald Pohlman for personally sponsoring the second highest number of men entering the fraternity. A guy who would later turn on me like a vicious dog and orchestrate my departure from the fraternity, Lincoln attorney J.L. Spray, had brought a couple more men into Masonry than me that year.
Bruce Watkins (now Grand Secretary) , who was one of my closest Masonic pals, together with a member of my lodge who had essentially had dropped out prior to my bringing him back and appointing him as one of my lodge officers, Robert Foreman, engaged in what we now know to have been a devious conspiracy to get me removed from the fraternity. With the assistance of Spray, (NOW LEGAL COUNSEL TO THE NEBRASKA REPUBLICAN PARTY) they orchestrated my Masonic demise.
Those who are current officers of Nebraska Lodges should check their e-mail on Friday (February 3, 2006) for a significant amount of information on subjects they might want to consider and discuss with others from around the state while they are at the annual meeting and afterwards.
They will find among other things that FORMAL MASONIC CHARGES were filed against BRUCE WATKINS and ROBERT FOREMAN by three members of Liberty Lodge #300 A.F. and A.M. and that such was covered up by the 131st Grand Master, Kenneth Fleming. At this time, it is not appropriate for me to share the contents of such with non-Masons, but it is most appropriate that all in attendance at Kearney this year should know BRUCE WATKINS IS NOT WORTHY OF CONTINUED MEMBERSHIP IN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY AND CERTAINLY NOT WORTHY OF BEING RE-ELECTED AS GRAND SECRETARY OF THE GRAND LODGE!
One thing the honorable Masons who will attend this Grand Lodge session should know is, THAT NONE OF YOUR VOTES ON WATKINS WILL EVEN COUNT! The invitations to the installation of Grand Lodge Officers INCLUDING WATKINS which is to take place in Hastings, Nebraska on 11 February 2006 have already been printed, mailed and received by those invited to attend! It would seem that those some of us call the "Gold Chain Gang" take a lot for granted. Since they carefully control the ballot and make it embarrassing for any nominations from the floor to take place, the ELECTIONS ARE ENTIRELY RIGGED! Somewhat out of line with lessons in certain lectures of the degrees of the fraternity taught to its members, I would say!
It is a slam dunk. Unless he is summoned to the "Appear before the Great White Throne above" another man from Hastings, Nebraska , Scott Krieger, Sr. will become the 140th Grand Master on 11 February 2006. He currently serves as the Deputy Grand Master and will move up a notch automatically. Time will tell if he is an honorable man or just another of the pack of malevolent Masons who seem to be willing to cover-up the evil deeds of their predecessors or are too intellectually challenged to even know what has been going on behind their backs.
Nebraska Masons beware. Your organization is currently totally controlled by a small group of lawyers and their stooges. Such has been the case at least since 1989, when a small group who called themselves "the banditos" created the "govern by committee" rule so the lawyers could be assured of either serving or controlling the actions of all succeeding Grand Masters.
Only when and if ever, the REAL MASONS who love the teaching and fellowship provided by the fraternity band together in sufficient numbers to BREAK THE CURRENT CHAIN OF CRONEYISM AND NEPOTISM, will the peace and harmony which prevailed for tens of decades before, return to Masonry as practiced in Nebraska.
Masons and non-Masons alike are invited to read and consider the contents of future articles which will appear in vansopinion.com. Nebraska Masons are further invited to check their e-mail with some degree of regularity to obtain factual information and learn what's really goings on in the fraternity. Things the "Gold Chain Gang" would rather be kept "SECRET" from you.
Learn how the 125th Grand Master, James DeMoss violated "Masonic Law" by taking over a lodge and conducting a re-balloting on several "Monks" of a religious order whose petitions had been previously rejected by the members of the particular lodge in question. Learn how DeMoss rigging the subsequent ballot so all who had been rejected would be admitted.
Learn how the the 119th Grand Master, Robert Metcalf's son, a Past Master of Lincoln, Nebraska lodge himself, who was tried and CONVICTED OF BUYING SEX FROM A FIFTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL (Debauching a minor) was never tossed out of the fraternity, in part, because his daddy, also a PAST POTENTATE OF SESOSTRIS SHRINE had the right amount of "pull" with the right people.
Learn about the 139th Grand Master, Ivan Vrtiska and his Grand Secretary Bruce Watkins signing and filing fraudulent property tax exemption request forms in Lancaster County, Nebraska.
Learn why the tax status of the Grand Lodge was changed by the Internal Revenue Service after an official of the Plattsmouth Masonic Home had LIED UNDER OATH in a document Grand Lodge used in a legal action.
Learn which Deputy Grand Custodian violated that part of the OBLIGATION OF A MASTER MASON involving engaging in "illicit carnal intercourse with a brother Master Mason's wife..."
Learn about the grand old man of Nebraska Masonry, the 99th Grand Master, Judge Harry Spencer violating the Obligation of a Master Mason together with how, when and why along with the associated cover-up.
Learn about the 126th Grand Master James "Sonny" Eatmon and the 138th Grand Master Les Seiler conspiring to rig and actually rigging a "Grievance Committee" hearing SIX MONTHS BEFORE THE HEARING TOOK PLACE and how the 127th Grand Master, Donald Pohlman will attest to having been told by the 131st Grand Master Kenneth Flaming such had taken place while he and Pohlman were attending a meeting in another state.
Learn how and why the 123rd Grand Master, Tom Tye, acting as parliamentarian at a meeting of the Grand Lodge, kept the 109th Grand Master, Donald Swanson from presenting to the members assembled, details of how to the Grievance Committee and others were presenting a rigged report to the Grand Lodge for its approval WHICH CONTAINED THE RIGGED TERMINATION OF A MASTER MASON'S MEMBERSHIP. This was done notwithstanding the fact Swanson was entitled to speak as one of four members of the Mason in question's "Defense Counsel Team" (which also included the 114th Grand Master, Warren "Duke" Lichty, Jr.). Swanson was also entitled to speak as a PAST GRAND MASTER, but refused the privilege by Tye.
Learn how to the Grand Lodge lost over $1.6 million dollars as a direct result of to the un-Masonic conduct and subsequent cover-ups of such by to the 130th through and including to the 139th Grand Masters. Past Grand Master Donald Swanson had the last laugh!
Learn how and why to the 130th Grand Master, V. Kaye Ramsey stood in to the way of my accepting an invitation by Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz to arrange for a meeting involving me and several of my associates (some of to the most scholarly Masons in America) to engage in "a measure of dialogue with the Holy See concerning the Declaration on Masonic Associations issued by your Congregation on November 26th 1983..." The Bruskewitz letter was addressed to the then Josef Cardinal Ratzinger head of the Congregation for to the Doctrine of Faith in the Vatican. As you may note, Cardinal Ratzinger has since become POPE BENEDICT XVI! Thanks to Ramsey, a golden opportunity to promote Freemasonry was stifled.
Some of the information alluded to above will become a part of future articles. Some will become a part of talks I will be giving around the country. Some will be reserved for to the attention of Nebraska Masons only for a while, and later be released to Masonic leaders world wide. Finally, if the grievous error made and known to have been made by "leaders" of the fraternity are not reversed in an orderly manner, a great fraction of the information may be placed in the "Court of public opinion."
I will not rest until those who have and are still corrupting Freemasonry in Nebraska recant, repent and apologize to all of the brethren for THEIR UN-MASONIC CONDUCT and until they SQUARE THEIR ACTIONS with any and all offended parties.
SO MOTE IT BE!
Oh HUM,
ReplyDeleteFREEMASONRY IN NEBRASKA JUST ''AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE''
In its prime, around 40 years ago, the Masons in Nebraska numbered around 30,000. Since then, the number of Masons has been on a downward slope until now, there are approximately 10,000. The ongoing loud voice of those misinformed opportunists and religious zealots who criticize the fraternity to sell books, have been around for decades, but they are not, in my opinion, the cause of the decline. I would like to share with Nebraska Masons and others who might have an interest, in what I believe to be the contributing factors to the decline in interest in the honorable fraternity. Changes which have taken place, even over the last ten years in Nebraska would make Masons of yesteryear weep! I sincerely hope Masons in other states read this and articles to come, "and take due notice thereof, and govern yourselves accordingly."
While I have an ax or two to grind with a few brethren, I want my readers to know right up front, that this and other Masonic stories which will follow will in no way be "Anti-Masonic." To the contrary, there are not only numerous good men, but great men in Nebraska and around the world who still hold fast to, and practice, the precepts of the fraternity.
I was a member of Liberty Lodge #300, A.F. & A.M. for a number of years and in fact, in three short years after becoming a member, I was honored by being elected to serve as the Master of my lodge. While in that capacity, I was privileged to make a number of good men Master Masons. Around two dozen men became Masons and members of my lodge who I have given Petitions for Degrees (applications) to join. I NEVER HAD TO RECRUIT ANYONE TO BECOME A MASON! More on that subject later.
A life long goal of mine was and is to work toward a more universal understanding of what being a Mason is all about and hopefully, before I "stand before the Great White Throne" to play a part in removing the obstacles keeping Missouri Synod Lutheran and Roman Catholic men from openly becoming Masons. A whole lot more on that subject in future articles.
My principal membership in the Scottish Rite was in Oklahoma where I received all 29 degrees of that order. It was in the Sooner State I became a 32nd Degree Mason.. I, however, presided over the conferring of the Fourth Degree ( which is the first degree of that Rite) on hundreds of men in Lincoln, Nebraska. My Shrine membership was in Omaha.
These things are mentioned simply to give my readers an understanding that "I have been there and done that" as the kids would say. With a tad bit of brushing up, I could probably do a respectable job of conferring all three degrees of the "Blue Lodge" and the aforementioned degree in Scottish Rite. For the information of the Masonic readers, I was the last man in Liberty Lodge to "Prove up" the old fashioned way. For the non-Masonic readers, this means I memorized the answers to a fairly large number of questions which I had to answer before the brethren when examined in "open lodge." Later, I will refer to "Memory work" and "Proving up."
For those who might otherwise not know, the parent body of the fraternity in Nebraska is called the Grand Lodge Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, usually seen as Grand Lodge A.F. & A.M. Each state in the United States has its own "Grand Lodge" as does nearly every other country in the world.
There are a number of lodges scattered around in each state, now mostly in the larger towns and cities. In the 1950's and before, practically every town one or more Masonic Lodges. As membership declined and continues to decline, some of the smaller lodges merged with neighboring lodges and others just went out of business. What an incredible shame!
Omaha architect Ivan Vrtiska who serves, for about one more month, as Grand Master (the presiding officer) of the Grand Lodge of Nebraska in a recent issue of "The Nebraska Mason" made several comments I would like to address, because I think such are an attempt to rationalize or at least not address the real problems which have developed in Masonry as practiced in Nebraska. I hope to "wake up" the "good guys" in the lodges of Nebraska and pray they will not be afraid to commence working toward recapturing the leadership positions in the fraternity from a self-serving clique made up of a few brethren (mostly lawyers and their cronies) who have created and who nurture an unfortunate ongoing system of keeping themselves in positions of power to continue their domination of the "craft."
I would like to share some of what I believe to be reasons many "old timers" have quit attending lodge meetings and functions. Too many of the age old traditions in Masonry have been cast aside in Nebraska as those in leadership positions have developed increased lust for obtaining members and money at any price....even if they had to sacrifice certain historic virtues and teachings of the fraternity. During the time Freemasonry was at its highest point in memberships, NO MAN WAS EVER ASKED OR RECRUITED TO BECOME A MASON. Even the thought of RECRUITING members was totally unacceptable to the brethren. Masons promoted membership in their lodges by and through their actions and the examples they set in their communities. It was widely accepted in the world that a Mason's word or his handshake was as good as a written contract. It was similarly accepted in the world that you could trust your wife and your wallet with a Mason, knowing that neither would be violated. Unfortunately, times have changed!
In the recent edition of "The Nebraska Mason", the Chairman of the Grand Lodge Public Relations Committee, Wade Kendle presented a page full of "Ideas that Work: Recruiting." That sort of article would have earned him scorn if not censure in days gone by.
It is ironic that Kendle admonishes the brethren to "Know your topic", or in other words know what Masonry is all about. This brings us to the second tradition which has been scrapped in the interest of numbers and money, namely the practice of "one man at a time" receiving each of the first three degrees. In the Scottish Rite, one of the candidates from each "class" is selected to be the "exemplary candidate" and the rest set on the sidelines in each degree and watch the dramatic portrayals presented. By allowing that practice to be employed in the first three degrees, the full impact of becoming a Mason is robbed from the candidate. The personal touch was tossed out like dirty dishwater. Every "old-timer" vividly remembers two special events which take place in the Master Mason Degree. Watching what takes place in the conferral of each degree is nowhere close to the lesson one gets from experiencing the conferral oneself.
The current Grand Master says "It does no good to have new members if we are not willing and prepared to make them Masons." Thus clearly stating, new members are not "made Masons" as they advance through the degrees. Having to answer the question early in the first degree, "In whom do you place your trust", each man, perhaps for the first time in his life must respond before those assembled his personal answer - "In God! At one point in the Master Mason Degree, the candidate is admonished, "Heretofore you have had someone else pray for you - and now you must pray for yourself." Knowing every Mason before had to do the same, in the good old days, this was one of the things which created a special bond between the members. That too has been brushed aside in the interest of expediency.
Each degree has a "lecture" which contains is a series of questions and answers. Before tradition was scrapped, all of the answers to those questions had to be memorized by the candidate through his giving an "attentive ear" to another Mason's "instructive tongue" as it was forbidden for any member to copy down such. Knowing the new guy would have to be examined as to his "proficiency" in the memory "work" in open lodge, the instructor took special care to make sure neither he nor the candidate would be embarrassed. This procedure showed the man taking the degree work and another was willing to be his teacher. I can state from my own experience, the special bond one developed with one or more other Masons as a result of the "posting" or memorization process, will never be forgotten. That also has been scrapped.
The beautiful lectures in each degree are now often just rushed through mouthed words and not dramatically presented by a seasoned member of the fraternity whose delivery gave added emphasis and meaning to the messages.
Not all that many years ago, there was a requirement in the lodges that there had to be a lapse of at least twenty-eight days between each of the first three degrees. That gave time for the lessons of Masonry to sink in and for the memory work to be completed. Now, the real meaning of being a Mason has been brushed aside, if not ignored, as the process has been reduced to ONE DAY in many instances. That way a guy can go in the morning as a non-Mason and walk out that evening as a Shriner.
Being a Mason is serious business. Being a Shriner is mostly about having fun, however, some time and a small fraction of the available resources are devoted to helping arrange care for burned and crippled children. Every Shriner is a Mason...at least for now. (There is some talk that the Shrine might remove that requirement for membership). Being admitted to the "playground" of the Shrine has become the only inducement for some men to go through the "working place" of Masonry. That too is a shame.
If Ivan Vrtiska, and others who will follow him, really want to return Freemasonry in Nebraska to its golden days of yesteryear, the first step would be for him and others to restore century old traditions of the fraternity. Make Masonry once again a truly an honorable institution, rather than just another men's social club. Make each man who becomes a Mason feel a sense of pride in his accomplishments. Let each new Mason know and feel he has earned the distinction through his own endeavors and that of others helping him, rather than running though a "short cut" process whereby he is only obliged to observe for a few hours what his surrogate actually experiences before writing out a check and putting on fraternal jewelry. There is one thing more.
Starting with Ivan Vrtiska himself as an example to all of the brethren, he must be the living example of virtue, honesty, integrity and trustworthiness. He must not only mouth the words of the obligations he thrice times took on his way to becoming the Grand Master, HE MUST PRACTICE WHAT HE PROMISED TO DO!
The most likely reason, in my opinion, the fraternity is having problems attracting the kind and numbers of good men to its ranks it desires, in part, stems from the fact many believe they are judged by the company they keep. As more and more Masons, for their own self-serving selfish reasons find it acceptable to screw over their fraternal brothers in business and in politics, good men of high personal and ethical standards are repulsed by what they see.
Every Mason who attends the forthcoming session of Grand Lodge session to be held in Kearney, Nebraska early next month should seriously consider the men who will be placed in leadership position. Don't let the "good old boy network" decide for you who will actually become the new leaders of Freemasonry in Nebraska. If you don't like what you hear, see or know about those who will be "slated" for election BY THE "IN GROUP", get together with your friends who share your concerns and nominate "from the floor" one or more candidates for each office. Those who represent each lodge at the session have a lawful right to do just that! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Get a Grand Lodge "Line of officers" who are willing and capable of returning Masonry in Nebraska to what it once was, to what it could and WHAT IT SHOULD BECOME AGAIN!
So Mote It Be!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19950507/ai_n13981277
ReplyDeleteAs I occasionally remind my wife, motorists aren't typically presented awards for obeying traffic laws; they're typically presented citations for violating them!
ReplyDeleteSimply put, things going well, really shouldn't be noteworthy. It's when things don't go well that notice needs to be taken, so that problems can be corrected.
In that regard, I don't think it's fair to vilify the Widow's Son for pointing out Masonic problems. Hopefully, there's still a lot more "right" in Masonry than "wrong," which makes the "wrong" more unusual, and therefore more newsworthy.
As someone once famously said: "Dog bites man isn't news; man bites dog, is."
It should never reach a point where "Masons live up to ideals," is a newsworthy story.
-- Diogenes
http://cantontruth.blogspot.com/2007/12/ohio-masonic-grand-lodge-is.html
ReplyDeleteHey - Alumabrassadingdong:
ReplyDeleteI am getting a very sneaky suspicion that you think Freemason's are evil. It's hard to tell though as you are all over the road. One minute you are linking New World Order conspiracy sites, the next reposting articles about martyred masons who are exhorting their brethren to take masonry back. You even managed to sneak in a few tunes from Animals.
So, the question of the day is: What exactly are you trying to say?"
Feel free to edumacate me, but check the empty headed rhetoric at the doors. I want to hear what you think, not the words of the people who evidently do your thinking for you.
Ah, SQ... my dear dear brother...
ReplyDeleteYou act as if past behavior, which has been apologized for is somehow justification for continued unmasonic, unbrotherly, and unfair treatment.
YOU can continue down this path if you choose. Yes, I mention this blog as the smoldering stub, because it offers no light, and is little more than smoke and darkness... no light at all.
Sorry you don't like that, but given the unbrotherly, uncharitable, and unmasonic posts you leave here, one must ask what you learned at the masonic altar. I won't judge you, I leave your insulting, derogatory and uncharitable posts to speak eloquently.
As for your H.G. Wells references... hehehe, not very useful, but the attempt at insult simply goes to prove you cannot act the mason.
I will try to walk the higher path, that is, after all, what masonry asks from us, and I would commend you to set foot on the same high path.
This forum is nothing but an emotional black hole, and certainly offers nothing of value to freemasonry. "WS" is entitled to his ego gratification, and playing at being a journalist.
He is a good writer, I will give him that, but I find it endlessly saddening that you grant the author of this smoldering stub the right to be endlessly negative, but seem to resent the fact that I enjoy my freemasonry.
THAT is very sad.
For me, freemasonry teaches a better way of life, a higher calling, a valuable philosophy, good brothers and friends... even you. If YOU want to play the cad, call names and be negative, that's on you, and while I am sad that you do not see the beauty of freemasonry, I do see its beauty and glory.
No matter how negative and insulting you are or try to be, you cannot drag me down into your darkness. I wish you well, because that is part of my obligation as a freemason.
It is also part of my obligation not to lie. I think this blog is nothing be a pit, where incessant negativity is reveled in, like a bear rolling in a stinking carcass.
There is endless good in Freemasonry, and in any organization with over 6 million members worlwide, I am hardly surprised when you can point to less than a hundred not acting up to the standards we, I, hold dear.
So raise your banners high, wave them overhead, and revel in "exposing" the few...
I will revel in the love, warmth and fraternal support of my masonic brothers! And I do.
I love Freemasonry, I love my brothers, and hold out hope even for you, "SQ"... for while we disagree, I, at least, am willing to grant you the right to your opinion, which you seem unwilling to grant to anyone else.
Be well, brother.
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste"
ReplyDelete"Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste"
ReplyDeleteRobin Leech?
I made something special that everyone here deserves to have.
ReplyDelete33° or Fight!
Get your's now!
Blogger My Name is Still Nobody said...
ReplyDelete"Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste"
Robin Leech?
"Sympathy for the Devil", sung by the Rolling Stones, written by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, 1968
well, i just my shirt from groucho...love it
ReplyDeletebut since i am in the grand orient system, and we will not have any 33rds, so i guess i'll have to fight!
karma i guess, that is why we built the boxing gym!
i was at the temple today for wweigh ins, there are a couple of young women fighting this year!
Also, this year the golden gloves has its most fighters signed than in over a decade!
Also, one of our fighters is ranked 3rd in the nation at 119 in amateurs..
It is nice to provide for the local youths!
To see their faces at the weigh ins while they all milled around the building.
Awesome feeling to accomplish something.
Yeah I love MY masonry and my brothers, but God damn it feels good to actually DO something for the community and the less fortunate.
"Yeah I love MY masonry and my brothers, but God damn it feels good to actually DO something for the community and the less fortunate."
ReplyDeleteYes it does. My lodge and brothers do much for our community and the less fortunate.
"Blogger My Name is Still Nobody said...
ReplyDelete"Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste"
Robin Leech?
"Sympathy for the Devil", sung by the Rolling Stones, written by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, 1968"
Thanks Brother Theron. I'm familiar with the song. It does ask, as I recollect "can you guess my name?". I'm guessing the name is Robin Leach.
http://www.halcyontemple.org/gym.htm
ReplyDeletehttp://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=959664
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/3/26/fire_victim_4_being_treated_at_shriners_hospital.html
ReplyDeletehttp://starbulletin.com/2008/03/23/news/story02.html
ReplyDeletehttp://www.examiner.net/stories/032708/new_262325794.shtml
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/charity/charitynews/display.var.2125990.0.freemasons_gift_to_gift_of_sight_charity.php
ReplyDeletehttp://www.roundtownnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14202&Itemid=31
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_home/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=300809
http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080329/NEWS01/803290315/1002/NEWS01
Hey Nobody,
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to make the overkill effort at least use the frackin' a href tag for the hyperlinks.
Gheeeeezh. Get it together.
See like this:
I couldn't resist. I had no choice. I had to create a 33° or Fight! The Burning Taper Corral Brawl Apron.
Wear with pride, Brothers!
"If you're going to make the overkill effort at least use the frackin' a href tag for the hyperlinks."
ReplyDeleteYeah, I didn't think I'd bother. Do it this way and it's faster. Plus, it gives the people who can't use a link unless it's tagged something to do. Trying to take all the fun away? I fixed your link below. Try it!:
http://www.zazzle.com/grouchogandhi/product/1542473026044670
Besides, I never took your link anyway. Just because you put it up doesn't mean people will click it.
you might not like, but it's linked
ReplyDeleteyou might not like, but it's linked
you might not like, but it's linked
Of course, you might just like them all.
You might like this one and it's linked.
ReplyDeleteYou will like this one and it's linked.
Dig those aussies.
Who knoq's? It's linked.
The real reasons the American Civil War took place are not nearly as complex as accidentalists would have us believe. It was not about slavery or economics or Southern independence or any of the traditionally held causes; it was about the federal government of the United States enforcing its decision to repeal the right of American colonists to own allodial property granted by King George III in 1784 and 1794. These rights were asserted by the states which seceded and could only be suppressed by a federal invasion. The Civil War was about centralization following revolution; it was the American version of the Red Terror and Bonaparte’s coup d’etat. It was about denying the masses the catchword of ‘Liberty’ which the Illuminists use to incite them (the masses) to war, always promising and never delivering.
ReplyDeleteAny scholar of history would do well to ask Lincoln if the secessionists were dedicated to something other than Liberty and equality, and if that was ample cause to wage America’s most devastating conflict against a nation of people which it considered to be its own citizens. Since the Puritans founded the Massachusetts Colony and the Episcopalians settled in Virginia, the conflict between the North and the South was always between Masons and Illuminists; the Civil War was just an extension of this ideological conflict. It began when Lincoln was elected and basically ended when he was assassinated and the new president, a low-ranking Mason under the Southern Jurisdiction, publicly declared his fealty to Pike, an Illuminist. So we see that Pike’s victory over Masonry was even more complete than at first glance.
London was an early Illuminist stronghold.
The American Revolutionary War was officially ended by the Treaty of Paris negotiated by John Adams and the Illuminist Ben Franklin and John Jay in 1784. The fact that the King’s terms were not asserted well enough prompted Jay to further betray the United States with Jay’s Treaty in 1794. In response to the betrayals of the nation’s interests by the Illuminists, Congress passed the 13th Amendment in 1812 to prohibit titular subjects of the British Empire, like Jay, from serving in government. However, Britain retaliated by invading and destroying records of the 13th Amendment’s ratification in what is called the War of 1812. The 14th Amendment is now universally referred to as the 13th as though the 13th Amendment never existed
In a pamphlet published in support of the Grand Orient of France, Bradlaugh
ReplyDeleteeloquently expressed his vision of What Freemasonry Is, What It Has Been, and What
It Ought To Be: ‘True Freemasonry should be of no religion. under the temple roof
the strife of creeds should be hushed, work should be the only worship: work for the
redemption of long-suffering mankind’."
"Nor do I waste time defaming people I disagree with, as seems to be the general practice of some on this forum." - Theron
ReplyDeleteLet's start by being honest Theron. You have lashed out at Halcyon and defamed the brothers there because you disagree with them. You are as guilty of this as everyone else..\
Howard,
Thanks for that post --I'm happy to read you're not the only one who has made the connection with Bro. Dunn.. No matter he can act as he wish to --his right as is our to observer him.
Sec
ReplyDeleteMany of us see Mr. Dunn for what he is, he continues to talk out of both sides of his mouth and point the finger at everyone else.
I personally have made the decision to ignore him in the future, I find dealing with him not worthy of my time!
Br. Secretary and Br. Sq;
ReplyDeleteNeither of you are ignoring anything, and pretending otherwise is as useless as a cat trying to cover up on a linoleum floor.
Br. Secretary;
I observed the actions of the ex-masons from Halcyon as appearing unmasonic, and even supported that using the words of the brethren that supposedly belonged to that lodge. The actions have the appearance of being less than honorable.
if you do not like the appearance, don't undertake the actions. Its really simple. I am not judging the lodge, the WORLD is... for myself, I am, as I have noted elsewhere endlessly, willing to wait a time with patience to see what happens in the courts. Blathering words mean nothing, so I am reserving mine to wait and see.
Br. Sq;
I feel sorry for you brother, really I do, but Masonry teaches me many things, among them that there is always hope this side of the grave, for a brother to reform. Too bad you didn't learn that lesson as well.
But really, its ok... I am a Freemason, and I love you as a brother regardless.
Be well, both of you brothers, in whatever endeavor you chose to pursue. If its Freemasonry, then I doubly wish you well. EVERYONE can learn from our craft... even me, and while you may not want to accept it, that too, is okay with me.
you see, its not about me changing you, its about me changing me into a better mason. If you chose to join me on that journey, so much the better!
Brother Theron, you and greg hall both wished and hoped that the men of Halcyon received the full wrath of the Grand Lodge of Ohio and the court systems!
ReplyDeleteYou sir, had them tried, convicted and executed!
You sir, have acted in this manner, now if you have changed your stance, then a Light actually went on in that dome of yours.
That is a change in you for the better, but YOU did call for the full wrath to be cast down upon the good, honest men of Halcyon.
SECII, spot on Brother!
Call a spade a spade.
Brother Theron has on numerous occasions attacked Widow's Son, the Master of Halcyon and his elected officers for taking a stand in the face of tyranny and unlevelness at the highest level.
I appluad the men of Halcyon for not wiavering in the face of the Big Bad Grand Lodge. It is inspiring to us lowly Blue Lodge masons toiling away in the quarries, while Titled masons step on Brothers, back stab brothers and do everything they can to ruin good, honest masons.
To Halcyon, keep it up, you have many supporters out there, more than you know. I sinscerely hope the Grand Lodge of Ohio embarrasses the whole craft when this all plays out.
Spending the crafts money frivolously. I am sure some destitue widow in Ohio could get better use from that retainer fee the Grand Lodge of Ohio had to plunk, just to prove NO BODY can take a stand?
I am sorry Ohians for this misuse of funds and I sure hope dues card carrying members ask for a complete audit of all the funds becomming available for this frivolous lawsuit.
Whose money is the Grand Lodge using? I am sure there is a defense fund, but a Legal Offensive fund?
Is that something that is voted on?
i also read that the Grand Lodge of Ohio is now trying to influence who the charities is going to do business with?
Is there no checks or balance within the Ohio system? We know west virginia has none, and georgia and arkansas and alabama, but now Ohio?
Can a Grand Lodge ever be checked?
or can they act with impunity for ever?
has not any well respected leader tried to whisper good counsel to the Grand Master in Ohio?
Oh, I forgot, we do not get involved in other states messes, even if it makes the whole fraternity look like a bunch of petty, small minded losers getting a little power and wanting to run rough sod over any dissent?
I love my masonry like brother theron states, I love the Grand Master of Ohio for his tolerance and compassion and pit bull approach to attacking young men and a young charity.
I do not know the mood of ohio and the area of where Halcyon exists, but if these young men are that active with the community, and the public enjoys their works, what is that going to make the Grand Lodge of Ohio look like?
If it effects membership, I guess ohio will have another one day class to fill the ranks with more lemmings!
If you have a check, you will be a 32 degree mason in One day.
Step right up, hand over your check so we can use it for a lawsuit, instead of something noble, like partying to celebrate 200 years of masonry, not free masonry?
What a Joke!
I cannot wait to travel to ohio to poke fun at the losers there! ask them if they really know how their Grand Lodge is spending THEIR money.
Wisely or frivolously!
But Iguess it won't be the first time masons miss spent funds and probably won't be the last.
Oh, yeah one last question, has the gran dlodge of ohio set a cap on what they will spend to attack young masons, or is it a bottomless pit for this endeaveor?
At any point should the craft be consulted on the expenditure of THEIR funds?
Is there no fudiciary responsability to the brethren?
Hey, Br. Dunce, nice to see something from you of... substance for a change.
ReplyDeleteLet me be really clear here on Halcyon since don't seem to get what I am saying: I am willing to wait for the court system to settle the issue of Halcyon and the building. I personally think the whole issue LOOKS bad, it does not pass the smell test... HOWEVER, it is not my job to judge them, nor my intention.
I disagree with what they did AS IT APPEARS. If, as is claimed by some brothers, they had the approval of the Grand Master of Ohio to move the building to a charity, why did they not have a letter to that effect? I WOULD HAVE. It only makes sense. You do not move a multi million dollar asset around willy nilly, against the rules of the grand lodge...
I acted based on the statements of the ex masons from Halcyon. THEY claimed they did it to prevent the grand lodge from... yadda yadda yadda. I even quoted the man who used to be a mason and master of that lodge.
i did not make anything up out of whole cloth. Now, you may not like it, that I dare to ask questions about their actions, but really brother, you question every action of every brother as if we were all criminals... isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Once more, I guess its okay for some brothers to slander and defame masons on the least, or frankly no provocation, but when a mason stands up and says: Hey, I LIKE my Freemasonry and I like my Grand Lodge, he gets defamed and attacked willy nilly, as you have and are doing right now.
You may not believe it, but I find your moniker to be endlessly amusing, because you are naming yourself as a dunce, and while I truly doubt you are the fool, I simply do not understand why you WANT to play one... and yes, Dunce, I love you as a brother, though I despair that you may have learned nothing of real freemasonry based on your actions.
I have not "attacked" the "Widow's Son", I have noted I do not agree with his actions. There is a big difference between attacking, and noting disagreement. As I have always noted, "Widow's Son" is entitled to do anything he wants, say whatever he wants, publish whatever he wants... and I am free to disagree with what he says, and to agree with him on the rare occasions, it seems, when he does/says/writes something I can agree with.
Unfortunately, those occasions seem to be pretty rare.
Now, really, if you want to debate, at least be honest in your terms, and try to act like masonry asks us to act, as brothers with a variant opinion. You can say and think what you want, feel free, its your right... but my brother, you should also at least admit that I have a right to disagree with your Point of View without resorting to the childish tactic of trying to demonize me because you disagree with me.
That would be the masonic thing to do. "Widow's Son" and I disagree on many things, but he does not seem to think he needs to demonize me to make his points. He uses rational arguments, quotes me, and moves on.
Why is it that you think YOU have to attack to defend a man that is more than capable of defending himself? And why do you insist on mistaking a differing POV as an attack?
I love you brother, and would really see us get along even when we disagree. The choice is yours, as I have noted eleswhere, I cannot and would not change you for the world, freemasonry is about ME making me a better man.
I work on that every day.
Bro Dunn in this own words:
ReplyDelete"Let me be really clear here on Halcyon since don't seem to get what I am saying: I am willing to wait for the court system to settle the issue of Halcyon and the building. I personally think the whole issue LOOKS bad, it does not pass the smell test... HOWEVER, it is not my job to judge them, nor my intention."
"Personally, I find this all completely unmasonic... but they have chosen to no longer be masons, so I guess that is like a self fulfilling prophesy.
A very sad day for Halcyon and the brothers in that lodge, because I am sure the GLoOH is not going to just sit back and allow this to occur.
All very unmasonic."
Yes, brother secretary... those are my words, and I stand by them. I personally, find their actions to be unconscionable. Attempting to close the lodge in one night, without a summons to the majority of the members is certainly against masonic law in Ohio.
ReplyDeleteIf they were so unhappy, they should just have quit, as many of them did, after trying to destroy the lodge. THAT, coupled with the rest of the actions has the appearance of collusion to abscond with the building and assets.
I am, however, content to await the decision of the courts. If, as I have been assured, the Grand Lodge approved the transfer of the building to the charity, then I am sure there is a letter to that effect, which will put an end to the issue once and for all.
After all, no lawyer worth his salt would try to move a multi million dollar asset from one 501c(4) to another without a certified triple signed letter blessing such a move, so some similar instrument.
Those men who gave up their dues cards did the right thing, and I would laud them for their courage, if they had simply done THAT, instead of voting to return the charter at the same time, and in a very real sense, try to kill the lodge.
Their actions speak for themselves, but as it is clear I do not have all the facts in hand, I am willing to wait a time with patience as this all sorts out in the courts... or am I incorrect in my understanding that the GLoOH IS taking legal steps right now?
Regardless, I am not an Ohio Grand Lodge Member. I do not have to judge to know that since the men who used to be masons from Halcyon have surrendered their dues cards, they are no longer masons.
As for the building, I have no dog in that fight, so I will sit back and wait to hear what the courts decide.
I am, however, personally appalled at the APPEARANCE these men have presented...
it certainly does not rise to the level that we expect from Masons... in appearance. And for that, I am profoundly saddened... YOU, the men of Halcyon, chose to play this out on the internet stage, however, so you can HARDLY be surprised when the actions are viewed... askance.
I would have handled it differently, and would not have pushed it to the confrontation that appearances have your brothers doing... their words show a very confrontational approach, and I have rarely found a confrontational approach to be a brotherly thing.
Just saying...
I left this forum for a while only to return to find that it hasn't changed. The darkened still bicker as I once did, and peace and harmony is not present. At some point we all will discover that we all have different view points and we all will probrably never agree. Freemasonry has lasted as long as it has because above all we look after our brethren, and uphold peace and harmony, shunning discussion of politics, religion, and any other possibly controversial topic. It may sound lame to not be controversial and to not stand up for what you believe in but that is not what Freemasonry is about Freemasonry is about something much greater, Freemasonry is also not about me preaching to anyone, it is about our own personal journeys through thought, philosophy, and all things tahat a man might encounter in life. A journey in which we have brothers present to push us along, always giving words of comfort and council, and never to speaking evil of a brother. Lets turn our eyes and minds to the more noble points of the craft, and first deal with the planks in our own eyes, we all have room to grow. I participated in this blog until i realized that I needed to grow becausee i was causing controversy with brothers who didn't agree with my ideas. From now on I will strive for peace and harmony. No matter what the cost.
ReplyDeleteAnd Theron,
ReplyDeleteYou are an incredibly bright brother and i do not mean this in any manner other than council but please don't let pride get in the way of brotherly love, at some point it goes from comfort and council to preaching at someone, some people you won't be able to guide no matter how bright you are, and some are just here to be controversial. Oh and i need to discuss somethiing with you about Lodgeroom US forum, and my membership, but i dont really want to list my email address on this page. My old email account is non existant.
-Freethinker
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFreethinker, my brother!
ReplyDeleteMy email is theron (at) therondunn (dot) com
"Howard",
Please... as usual, with a lack of facts, you slam the various GLs with that broad brush. I can only think of a few situations where a brother was "kicked out" without cause or a fair trial first.
Its really really easy to toss around bald accusations without facts, and is not at all what we are taught as masons.
Remember, Charity means your mein and attitude, not just opening your wallet. Circumscribe your desires with the compasses and remember, its not about changing others. Freemasonry is an internal journey.
It's really about you making YOU a better man. Stop wasting time and emotional energy on what others are doing and focus on what freemasonry teaches YOU, internally.
Then you will truly be acting as a mason.
Just my 2 cents.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDear Howard,
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly the kind of comment that does not perpetuate brotherly love, but brother just because some practices in this nation may not be to your liking it doesn't invalidate the fact fact that freemasonry has lasted as long as it has because of the strength and unity of our brotherhood. Many organizations have gone down over night because of disagreements. I am not here to say whethere any brother is right or wrong so there is no need to throw Grand Lodge actions at me. I won't judge you nor any other brother whom my jurisdiction recognizes. But I will say that i have obligated myself to my Grand Lodge therefore I will follow its rules, because it is the agreement that i made. I may have disagreements sometimes but I must stand for the greater good which is peace and harmony because these are the strengths of all well regulated institutions, more especially this of ours. We must attempt to speak with our brothers in these forums in a civilized manner, we must act as brethren. And yes some of these ideas sound nice and it is alright to postulate ideas because thought is something that is seriously lacking in todays society.
Oh and Widow's Son its good to be back.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Howard";
ReplyDeleteHonestly brother, you are allowing your anger at what YOU see as unrighteousness to cloud your vision. Sure Freemasonry is smaller by 40%, a lot of older brothers who JOINED in the 1960s are dying now. You WISH to see Mainstream freemasonry dying, so that is what you see.
remember the old saw about the glass half full or the glass half empty? You are so angry at the "treatment" you have received at the hands of one grand master that you are loosing sight of reality.
The grand lodges are NOT circling the drain. In fact, more men are coming to freemasonry today than have in the past twenty years. There is great interest in the lodges and freemasonry.
The world no longer has a moral compass, and freemasonry is offering that moral compass today. Do we have some guys who should never have gotten past the west gate... well, yeah!
But you point to the FEW as if they were indicative of the many, and the aren't now any more than they ever have been. You WANT the glass to be half full for regular masonry to justify where you are and where you are going and what you are doing.
Its not brotherly, and it certainly isn't attractive. MY freemasonry is growing and changing, and certainly there are a few spots where its not perfect, but in any system as you make changes the flaws will come to light.
I am not interested in playing whack-a-mole with you. You dislike regular freemasonry intensely, and as a result, no matter what, you will be cheering the bad and ignoring the good, all the while cheerleading for what you see as the "future" of freemasonry.
Honestly brother, if the Halcyon debacle is the "future" of freemasonry, I don't want to be a part of it. Regardless of the outcome, it looked ugly, it stank to the GAOTU, and made your vision of freemasonry look tawdry and cheap.
Now maybe it wasn't, maybe the GLoOH did say "Bless you my sons" to transferring the building. If so, where is the letter from them okaying such an action? You don't have one.
If their actions were all above board, why did they try to close the lodge in one meeting, without notifying all the on the record members, as is required by masonic law everywhere?
If their actions were all above board, why did they keep the same name as the lodge they destroyed? If their actions were all above board, why didn't it LOOK like it?
Don't answer, I really don't care WHY. My point is it LOOKED bad, and they stink as representatives of the "future" of freemasonry you champion.
I mention these things not because I really care, I have no dog in this hunt, but you try to tar all of freemasons, all 4 million of us in the United States, on the actions of a few who are, admittedly, not acting inside the tenets and rules we have established for ourselves.
More, when they are caught, they are expelled, after being found guilty, or admitting their guilt, as has already happened with the Jesters. I am also not interested in the maunderings of that frost person, the antimason that offers nothing of value but spew and bile.
You have to get it, "Howard". You are just being in-your-face with any mason that does not agree with you, acting contrariwise to what you claim for freemasonry. You claim to be a Freemason because you claim to be a Freemason, and we claim to be Freemasons because of our obligation to a regularly constituted Grand Lodge and Lodge.
If you want to be treated as a mason, and I do not see that as an unreasonable request, then you have to treat everyone ELSE that acts like a mason, AS A MASON.
If there are problems, deal with them. I just don't see the glass as half or completely empty, as you seem to want to...
and MY masonry is turning in the direction of growth, because MY grand lodge is giving the members what they want. Fellowship, honor, integrity, education, philosophy and brotherhood.
MY Masonic homes just broke ground on another facility, and is continuing to grow. They are NOT closing down, and we are still helping the orphans and widows, as we are required, so your jab is not only false, it is unbrotherly to imply that all grand lodges are failing.
They aren't.
If the lodge's contract, I am actually okay with that. Its not all about numbers, quantity, its about quality.
I am right now sitting in Charleston, South Carolina, and they have, in a state with just over 5 million people, 45,000 masons in the GLoSC (almost 3% of the adult male population), and I have no idea how many in the MWPHGLoSC.
Hardly folding... they have more members than MY grand lodge does, and the population of my state is about 40 MILLION (about .24% of the adult male population).
Wishful thinking doesn't help, "Howard". You are a good brother, but your version of freemasonry is just one more version in a 300 year history.
Regular Freemasonry isn't going away, and none of the other flavors are going to replace it, no matter how some may wish it to be true.
The Internet, while containing instant feedback from those that agree (and disagree) with you, is not indicative of reality. You really need to get out in the world and look at reality, aside from the clandestine and irregular lodges, and of course the hatespeech of some frosty women.
Freemasonry is doing fine after an adjustment, and I will take my regular freemasonry anytime.
Its GOOD being a Freemason, as even you will, I am sure, admit.
I stand beside my Grand Lodge not because im obeying blindly but because i obligated myself to stand beside my Grand Lodge, and the idea of the Grand Master and the Grand Lodge is that they have supreme power, in tradition Grand Masters had all of the power to do whatever they willed. And by trusting in their judgement and following the plans laid out on the tracing board they completed their daily tasks.
ReplyDeleteJust like many men place their trust in God, not that the Grand Master is a God, but a symbolof one. A symbol of God that all that exists in nature follow set rules, dictated by what could be called a pantheistic God. Masonry is pure symbolism, which allows for anyones interpretation of them.
Before 1963 Masonry existed for atleast 573 years, that is quite a long time. Once again im not trying to argue with you, therefore in respect for me as a fellow mason please dont talk down to me or note how pround I should be of myself. I know exactly how proud I should be and i shouldn't be proud of myself at all, nor am I. The fundamental point of serving others is seeing a need and addressing it in other words if you are serving mankind you are obeying mankind's silent orders, there will always be orders in this world it just depends on how you look at them.
I will follow Nature, God, and any of my brothers blindly because that is how much i trust them, and as long as i follow them, trust them and don't act proudly and don't decide that my way is best, i wont be reprimanded for any action, and i will learn to be the leader.
-Freethinker
Free Thinker,
ReplyDeleteThis is the same GM and GL that expelled multiple brothers for "devil worship" just a few weeks ago in Atlanta. One brother was even gaveled down and not allowed to defend himself.
This happened because they were debating something Kabbalistic on a masonic e-list.
Not very enlightened.
Young Wolf,
ReplyDeleteI would like to know more about this incident, what lodge did it happen at? What e-list? I just want to know more?
-freethinker
I'm curious how many Masons are divorced?
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't need an actual number or even a show of hands.
I just want to know how you guys here who go on about maintaining blind obedience to a corrupt grand lodge system because you "swore an oath before God" justify having broken an oath before God of loving, honoring and cherishing your wife "til death do us part."
In divorce, extenuating circumstances provide for, even demand sometimes, that your marriage vows be broken. Isn't it likewise true regarding Masonic vows of fealty to a grand lodge?
— W.S.
interesting divergence you are offering there... and of course, a totally unsupportable (and typical) slander of the grand lodges. No surprise WS... thanks for remaining true.
ReplyDeleteSmoldering Stub indeed, and you are the Pied Pieper.
Just for the record, married to the same, wonderful woman for 22 years.
Blind faith has no moral conscience.
ReplyDeleteExactly, "Howard" YOUR blind faith in the correctness of your position is terrible.
ReplyDeleteI, on the other hand, am not blind to the faults of Freemasonry. I just choose not to create faults out of nothing, nor spin minor problems into major ones.
There are a few, and I emphasize FEW problems that need to be repaired, but nothing like you or our erstwhile host, the Pied Piper of the Smoldering Stub would like to claim.
Freemasonry is about the internal, improving the spiritual man. No one can polish someone else's ashlar, and you waste your time railing away at issues you cannot affect.
I don't understand why you spend so much time and energy trying to poke holes in regular Freemasonry. If you don't like how regular freemasonry works (or in your opinion doesn't), then why not focus on your Freemasonry?
Honestly, "Howard", there are MANY of us regular masons that love our lodge and our grand lodge and are working in it just fine. I am not the only one out there, I am just one of the more vocal.
interesting divergence you are offering there... and of course, a totally unsupportable (and typical) slander of the grand lodges.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Bro. T, but think that you are being unfair to be calling names while claiming that he is offering a "divergence." I think that WS did ask an excellent and relevant question.
Of course, WS, by using the term "corrupt GL system," it begs the question because you would need to define (and prove) the corruption that you claim. I hope that you are not implying that ALL GL systems are corrupt, because that would be a real stretch.
To follow that up, are some obligations more important or binding than others? Why does divorce seem okay, yet breaking Masonic obligations not okay? I'd like to see someone address that question, or at least try to define what the essential differences are.
That was a typical, all too common Theronista technique that Bro. Dunn just used here, attacking the questioner instead of exploring the question, and then personalizing his response by injecting unrelated information to make it about himself. His own happy marriage was of course not the issue at hand — marriage wasn't even the subject. His tired tactics have come to be expected.
ReplyDeleteI asked about the people on here who were "going on about... corrupt grand lodges." The corruption of certain lodges was the topic here.
I've no problem (and neither do most other Masons) honoring my obligations to an honorable institution — of marriage or a grand lodge. The question implies that the marriage and/or the system has become corrupted.
I asked if in THOSE circumstances, how do you justify the breaking of solemn vows.
— W.S.
and of course, my brother pied piper, you don't see any unmasonic action in slandering all grand lodges as corrupt... doesn't that broad brush ever get tiring to sling around?
ReplyDeleteThe point I was making about asking about the validity of obligations is that, while an interesting question in and of itself, it certainly seems an interesting means of changing the course of the conversation.
As for Theronista... LOL, yes, I wear my grand lodge and masonry on my sleeve proudly. I am a proud and happy Freemason, and will say so to anyone (and do).
If being a Theronista is supporting the regular grand lodge system and my brothers, then I will wear your moniker proudly.
tom, I was objecting to our Pied Piper here and his typical negative broad brush slandering all grand lodges as corrupt, an unsustainable and unmasonic accusation.
HIS grand lodge MAY be corrupt, I would not know as I am not a Georgia Mason, and the only reports you find on this blog are negative ones... from an extreme minority of members (2 to be exact, one current, one expelled) so its hardly representative of anything.
Bro FreeThinker,
ReplyDeleteIt happened in Piedmont Lodge 5th district. GA mason e-list, not sure which one. They were discussing either a picture or a Kabblistic/Gnostic belief that Lillith was married to Tubulcain and then someone suggested that since Lillith was turned into a demon that it reflected badly on Tubulcain.
Charges of unmasonic conduct were filed and they were convicted and expelled.
A DDGM may be able to give you another take on the story since DDGM's are usually a tight-knit bunch.
Both the Shrine and Jesters are national Masonic bodies. There are mem0bers from all jurisdictions that belong to these groups.
ReplyDeleteSince both are known for acting immorally and sometimes being corrupt, then it follows that there is some level of immorality and corruption in all jurisdictions. Obviously, it is more extreme in some.
Howard:
ReplyDeleteWhat you note is just another example of the broad brush. You see, if you replace Shrine and Jesters with ANY group you will find a SMALL segment that violate the rules. This is not indicative of ANYTHING other than that a small segment of any group violate the rules.
It proves nothing about Freemasonry. That brush getting heavy yet?
In the interests of full disclosure, I am NOT a Shriner or a Jester, or a member of ANY side/concordant body. I am a blue lodge mason only.
By the way, the actual number of masons in California, I have been reasonably informed by my grand lodge is not 36,000, it is actually 61,000.
ReplyDeleteAnd "Howard", what your example proves is NOT that there is corruption in any group or body, but instead that a FEW men are violating their obligations and the tenets of the fraternity.
It happened in Piedmont Lodge 5th district. GA mason e-list, not sure which one. They were discussing either a picture or a Kabblistic/Gnostic belief that Lillith was married to Tubulcain and then someone suggested that since Lillith was turned into a demon that it reflected badly on Tubulcain.
ReplyDeleteCharges of unmasonic conduct were filed and they were convicted and expelled.
Qabalistic references are woven throughout masonry. To associate them with devil worship would be to associate Freemasonry itself with devil worship.
Are you sure that it wasn't a flame war where people went overboard and started calling each other out?
If not, the ousted brothers, if they were expelled solely for their beliefs, could probably file discrimination charges.
In divorce, extenuating circumstances provide for, even demand sometimes, that your marriage vows be broken. Isn't it likewise true regarding Masonic vows of fealty to a grand lodge?
ReplyDeleteI am not divorced, but I agree with you and stated this reason in another thread:
"Once a truly wise and virtuous man realized that he was a duped into swearing fealty to a corrupt organization, he would also realize that any solemn obligation he made to it was based on duplicitous circumstances and therefore null and void."
I feel that you have a duty to either remove the corruption when you encounter it, or, leave with your obligation pristine, but revoked.
I find myself agreeing with LVX.
ReplyDeleteTO me Fre-Masonry should be a society of honorable people engaged in the search for truth and enlightenment. It should be a vehicle that helps further our understanding.
Under the present circumstances it acts as a barrier to the search for truth and enlightenment. Free-Masons are told with whom they can talk and learn, and what organizations they can belong to. These are barriers to gaining more Light.
The Grand Orient of France is almost 300 years old and has much to offer American Freemasonry, but American Masons are restricted from go to this source.
If American Freemasonry was truly dedicated to truth and enlightenment it wouldn't be creating boundaries but building bridges.
Boundaries are created to defend and protect, while bridges join together. Why do Freemasons need to be protected from learning and experiencing more from other Freemasons?
Since I have been working with the Grand Orient of France my knowledge of Freemasonry has expanded considerably. In the past I was the one brothers came to with questions about Freemasonry, but now I find myself being the one with a myriad of questions. There is so much material here it would take three lifetimes to experience all of it.
Oddly enough American T.O. lodges are based on ideas taken directly from the Grand Orient of France. The founders of this movement met with the GOdF to try and understand "traditional Masonry". Why? Apparently, they felt we had lost it here in America and they had to go to France to bring it back here.
Why is it considered okay to steal from the GOdF but still consider them "clandestine"?
These are serious questions that every Mason should ask himself.
There is way too much being hidden from American Masons, and it isn't right.
Widow's Son your divorce point is a very good one, and a very valid one, one that i cannot possibly argue, but just because a person broke one vow does not mean that it is alright to break another.
ReplyDeleteI have been with the same woman for two years and three months as of today, and i do not plan on becoming married for atleast another 6 years, Because i take my life and the obligations that i make extremely seriously. All people are not alike though, and im not slandering anyone by saying that some people don't take things as seriously. Differences are a simple truth in nature we are all different. Masonry is all about simple truths.
But here is a rhetorical question, Who here sees divorce as a good thing (and before the jokes start flying take this seriously how many people does it hurt), and yet another question, who sees the breaking of a promise, a vow, or an obligation as a good thing? In my opinion neither are a good thing and the more common place it becomes to break oaths and vows the less oaths and vows will be treasured by the masses.
Anyone can look around today and see how little marriage means to many people, divorce rates are at an all time high. Does anyone want to see masonry become like marriages in this sense. The best cures for an ailing marriage are counciling, and truely working together to fix the issues.
And yes ive never been married but if you want the personal story of what ive watched my parents go through and still succeed you can leave your email address and i will email you the story.
In masonry as it exists today, the way to change the things that you don't like about it is by hard work, getting out in your jurisdiction and speaking up, working together with your brethren and making things change. But these are my opinions im not throwing punches at anyone,so brethren don't throw punches at me, when brethren speak to each other as enemies it makes me sad for the organization.
And yes maybe there are probems in masonry, maybe there are things that i dont agree with but i studied masonry before i ever joined, i knew that prince hall masonry was not recognized in Georgia, but i joined anyway i had spent my entire life around Masons, i read books, I knew what it was about and i joined for the simple reason that they do so much good for the world.
I love freemasonry just the way it is,
Freethinker
"Howard"
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with searching. If YOU are interested in the Grand Orient, fine, no one is trying to stop you.
I can talk to any mason I want, the issue is, I cannot, and will not, sit in a tyled lodge with a clandestine Mason. As you know, the REGULAR Grand Lodges in the US all, unanimously, hold the Grand Orient to be clandestine.
Its not a value judgment on the part of the brethren, it just IS. The challenge you have is that since you are no longer a regular mason, you are trying to find a way to make irregular/clandestine masonry morally equal with regular masonry.
The reason that is a problem is because regularity has never been about moral equivalency, or judgments of value. A clandestine mason is simply NOT a regular mason, as defined by the majority of masons in the world through their grand lodges.
So, while the Grand Orients might have much of value to you, and congrats by the way on finding something you like, it may have zero value for me, or some value, or great value.
Like everything though, I get to make that decision. Regular Grand Lodges do not try to tell you who you can TALK to... they tell you that you cannot have masonic intercourse with certain groups that are clandestine, in the pursuit of maintaining regularity of origin and purpose.
I am sorry, but I see your argument as specious here. Yes, I am interested in what is being called euphemistically "Traditional Observance", though admittedly, it is neither traditional nor an observance... and while the T.O. movement may have SOME roots in the Grand Orient, a greater influence is the English UGLE traditional system more than the Grand Orient.
The flaw in your basic premise is that in your view, Regular Masonry is flawed, and every OTHER masonry in the world is better. That's a sad position to proceed from, as it ignores the very real value of regular freemasonry.
You also presume that regular Freemasonry prevents or intrudes or interferes with my receiving all the light that can be conferred upon me, or that I can receive, and you have yet to prove that in any substantive way.
You focus on minutae, this Grand Master or that Grand Lodge, and totally ignore the very real brotherhood that exists among masons... I understand how you got there, and how you are proceeding upon that path, but really brother, you have to open your eyes to the fact that regular masonry DOES offer very real value and benefit to MANY of us.
I know this because as a regular mason that has benefited from regular freemasonry and traveled extensively in the world of regular masons, I have seen the very real benefits and masons that live and breathe regular freemasonry every single day of their lives.
I am one of them.
"The flaw in your basic premise is that in your view, Regular Masonry is flawed, and every OTHER masonry in the world is better. That's a sad position to proceed from, as it ignores the very real value of regular freemasonry." - Theron
ReplyDeleteThat is a very naive and narrow view of Freemasonry.
Will you ever see that it is so much bigger than your very small Anglo-American perspective.
The brotherhood of mankind is much bigger than your "Masonry" can envision. How sad.
Your Masonry is nothing more than empty words and promises. :(
Sorry YOU feel that way "Howard".
ReplyDeleteThe reality of regular freemasonry is so much more breathtaking and awesome than you can see, and that is sad.
There is good in the rest of the world's regular freemasonry, there is even some good and value to be found in irregular and clandestine masonry. Its too bad you have narrowed YOUR view so you can't see the good in all freemasonry.
I would say that my view is much broader than what you are offering.
And that, my brother, is truly sad.
I never sadi that there wasn't good in Anglos-American Freemasonry. I simply question why they build-up barriers around their members disallowing them from seeing a much bigger Masonic world.
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that it is highly irregular of any group of Masons to build barriers between themselves and other Masons. It restricts the search for truth to a narrow band of information, and in no way promotes the brotherhood of all mankind.
Again I ask why Anglo-American Masons from the TO lodges felt it necessary to visit Grand Orient Lodges in order to discover "Traditional Masonry"? Why are some of your brothers allowed to visit the Grand Orient, while others are restricted from doing so? Most recently Chris Hodapp tried to visit the Grand Orient of France, but was turned away. Your brothers want our help but are too afraid to speak the truth.
You have closed yourself off from the rest of the Masonic world and devolved into a mere social club. Surely you want and expect more out of Freemasonry or else why are your brothers visiting with us?
"I am sorry, but I see your argument as specious here. Yes, I am interested in what is being called euphemistically "Traditional Observance", though admittedly, it is neither traditional nor an observance... and while the T.O. movement may have SOME roots in the Grand Orient, a greater influence is the English UGLE traditional system more than the Grand Orient." - Theron
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing "specious" in my argument but it is now clear that you are attempting to obfuscate.
MAINSTREAM FREEMASONS FROM THE TRADITIONAL OBSERVANCE MOVEMENT SAT IN TYLED GRAND ORIENT OF FRANCE LODGES.
Again, just to make sure you read that correctly...
MAINSTREAM FREEMASONS FROM THE TRADITIONAL OBSERVANCE MOVEMENT SAT IN TYLED GRAND ORIENT OF FRANCE LODGES.
If the UGLE had everything they were looking for then why did the go to the Grand Orient of France?
"Howard"
ReplyDeleteYOU say regular masons sat in tyled sessions. I have seen no proof of that other than this claim today, and your sycophant Bradford's claim during a rant on the phone yesterday.
If they did, then they should face masonic charges.
Chris was turned away BY THE GRAND ORIENT, according to his blog, not by his grand lodge.
Look, they aren't REGULAR masons. For a LONG time, and many still do, they are not considered masons at all. You know this is true, which is what makes your argument specious.
You are no longer a clandestine mason, so your rants against Regularity and in favor of clandestine lodges must be met with... much skepticism, to say the least. You have an agenda, which I do not have, and in general, regular masons do not have.
I am not speaking for all, I am speaking for my experience, what I have seen, and what I have experienced, read and been told by my grand lodge and other grand lodges.
Now, I have ZERO interest in attending a clandestine lodge. Its not parochial or narrow minded, its keeping my obligation. I have no problem with not sitting in tyled lodge with anyone that claims to be a mason.
Part of being a mason is recognizing ONLY regular masons as, well, regular. If you aren't a regular mason, then I cannot have masonic communication with you, or rather, in keeping my obligation I will not.
As for "curiosity" about the clandestine lodges... why? There is nothing in those obediences that is earth shattering, mind blowing, or that would part the clouds so I could see the angels on that ladder singing hallelujah Hossana!
Again, if it makes YOUR Freemasonry to participate with the GO, then I really and sincerely commend you to it, and with my blessings! Honest.
On the other hand, your claims that "anglo" Freemasonry (what a denigrative term, though I suppose it was meant that way) "gets in the way" of being a freemason is silly prima facie.
I am a good mason, and I know thousands (really) of good, honorable men living their lives as good masons BECAUSE of Regular George Washington and Prince Hall Freemasonry.
By the way, is it your claim that Prince Hall Masonry is a waste of time as well? They have even LESS tolerance for clandestine masonry than the George Washington Grand Lodge's do!
As I noted above, I look at all freemasonry, not just George Washington Freemasonry, as I am free to do. I do not need my grand lodge's permission to talk to you, though you are a "clandestine" mason by the regular grand lodge rules, nor to treat you as a brother, which I have done since before your dust up with the Grand Master and still do.
Your real issue isn't the sharing of freemasonry, your issue is that the GO is not considered regular, and really, that is not an issue for me. Its an issue for the three Grand obediences in FRANCE to work through.
You see, if THEY would recognize each other, the UGLE would automatically recognize your Grand Orient. Neither UGLE, nor the George Washington Grand Lodges in the United States will recognize more than one Grand Lodge per territory unless and until THEY recognize each other.
This recognition of your grand orient is really an issue the FRENCH need to resolve. Where is your railing about politics and unbrotherly actions between the Grand obediences in France??
Why Regularity?
ReplyDeleteI have seen, and been party to discussions on Masonic Regularity for some time now, and this issue never serves but to stimulate... and, frankly, to disappoint.
It disappoint because intellectual energy is rarely, if ever, brought to the table on the issue. It is, rather, one of viscera, emotion and contention. This is silly on several levels, mostly because those of us discussing it have very little to do with changing it, and worse, most have very little or no understanding of it's whys and wherefores. We even have some women weighing in on the issue, claiming that because their group tells them they are regular masons, that therefore, they are... ignoring, of course, what regular means in a masonic context.
More: http://beaconofmasoniclight.
blogspot.com/2008/04/why-regularity.html
Theron,
ReplyDeleteYour "regularity" is something made up by the UGLE after 1813. The Grand Orient of France follows the regularity of the original Grand Lodge of London, established in 1717.
You can talk until you are blue in the face but your "regularity" was created to purposefully drive a wedge between English and French Freemasonry for political purposes that served the British government back in the 1880's. The British wanted the French out of Egypt so that they could control the canal.
Your "regularity" has nothing to do with Freemasonry, and everything to do with international politics.
The American Grand Lodge saw this for what it was and refused to follow the UGLE on this issue for almost a hundred years.
The Grand Orient of France is the oldest continually operating Grand Lodge in the world. It was Patented by the Grand Lodge of London. It's pedigree is unquestionable.
Only Masons who know nothing of Masonic and International history believe the BS they are being told about the GOdF. Apparently, you have been duped along with the rest.
Technically speaking the Grand Lodge of California is irregular because it was not Patented by a Grand Lodge that received a legitimate Patent from a Masonic authority such as the Grand Lodge of London or one of its officially Patented Grand Lodges.
You have no Masonic pedigree Theron and are, therefore, a clandestine Mason in the purest legal terms.
There's more...
ReplyDeleteThe UGLE broke with exclusive territorial jurisdiction when they created the Grand Lodge de Nationale and placed it within the sovereign jurisdiction of a legally patented Grand Lodge (the Grand Orient de France).
The Grand Lodge de Nationale, for those who don't know, is nothing more than a bunch of British ex-patriots pretending to be a French Masonic power.
You see Theron everything is not so nice and clean as you would like to make it appear. The UGLE broke with Masonic law and tradition for the sake of British imperial power. They went even further by creating an illegitimate Grand Lodge in a sovereign jurisdiction occupied by a Patented and legal Masonic power (GOdF).
Oh, "Howard" that's pure bovine excrement.
ReplyDeleteMy grand lodge was formed by three lodges that had regular charters from Grand Lodges that can trace their pedigree back to the Premiere Grand Lodge of England, which is not called the United Grand Lodge of England, which makes MY Grand Lodge quintessentially Regular.
Claims to the contrary are nothing short of self serving, as are your claims that the GO is regular. Its not, at least today... and I note, for the record, that you have totally ignored my point about it being an issue of the French lodges.
If they were to recognized each other instead of continuing this issue, there would be two regular grand lodges in France. The one that allows atheists will never be considered anything other than irregular.
Again, legitimate Grand Lodges are created through the Patenting process. It began with the Grand Lodge of England. Only those Grand Lodges that are patented are legitimate and can prove their pedigree. Self-creating Grand Lodges are just that - self- creating. A good example is the Grand Lodge of California.
ReplyDeleteAgain, your false claims of "regularity" are based on the whims of the UGLE re-interpreting Anderson's Constitution is a self-serving way that promoted the interests of the British Empire. The UGLE then proceeded to invade a sovereign jurisdiction.
Your Scottish Rite is a fraud. It was made-up by Albert Pike in the 1850's, while ignoring the original rituals of the Rite under the control of the GOdF.
Your York Rite is also a fraud. It is nothing like the original York Rite practiced by the United Grand Lodge of England. It is merely something made-up by American Masons.
Now, there are legitimate Grand Lodge in the USA. Massachusetts comes to mind as one example.
All this pompous rhetoric of "regularity" by you and others is utter nonsense and propaganda that cannot withstand the scrutiny of historical analysis. Your "regularity" is based on a convenient fabrication created by the UGLE to serve the best interests of the British Empire.
Oh! By the way...
ReplyDeleteYou may want to reconsider calling American Masonry "George Washington's Masonry".
You see Theron, you would have been expelled by your Grand Lodge for sitting in the lodge where Washington was raised. They didn't have a Charter and simply considered themselves "Time Immemorial".
That means they were clandestine by your standards.
So since you couldn't have even sat in his lodge don't you think it's unethical to claim that your Masonry is his Masonry?
Just a thought. ;-)
"Howard"
ReplyDeleteToo funny. Again, you ignore my point and go off on a tangent. The Grand Lodge of California as Regular because it was formed by Three Regular Lodges, AS THE ORIGINAL GRAND LODGE WAS FORMED and as the traditions of the UGLE have come to be employed and, more importantly, accepted.
The Grand Orient has no such claim. They are non regular because they are considered non regular by all regular grand lodges. Period. Wishes and arguments to the contrary are irrelevant.
My Grand Lodge was acknowledged as Regular by the UGLE and other George Washington Grand Lodges as soon as it formed.
And, its not MY York Rite or My Scottish Rite. I am a member of NEITHER, as you know. You can't hang any issue regarding them on me personally. I am a blue lodge mason, and we are, trying, to speak of Blue Lodge issues here.
And, too funny about the George Washington Nomenclature... He was a member of the Grand Lodge of Virginia... a regular grand lodge... unless one uses your contrived and contorted definition of what constitutes the formation of a regular grand lodge.
Of course, one thing that definitively defines a regular grand lodge is... oh, yes, i remember! Its RECOGNITION... by the rest of the Regular Masonic World.
here are the facts regarding George Washington:
Alexandria Lodge No. 39 at Alexandria, Virginia, was warranted by the Provincial Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania (Ancient) on February 3, 1783. It was constituted on the 25th of that month and has been in continuous existence ever since that date.
The Grand Lodge of Virginia having been formed, October 13, 1778, the Lodge withdrew from Pennsylvania obedience and received a Virginia charter dated April 28, 1788 as Alexandria Lodge No. 22.
George Washington with his personal consent, was named Worshipful Master in the Virginia charter for Alexandria Lodge No. 22. In 1804, the Grand Lodge of Virginia approved the change of name to the Alexandria-Washington Lodge No. 22, conditioned upon the surrender of the 1788 charter. To this condition, the Lodge objected, not desiring to lose its original Virginia charter in which Washington was named Master.
Accordingly, the Grand Lodge of Virginia adopted a resolution in 1805, permitting the change of name with retention of the old charter.
From the Alexandria-Washington Lodge at http://www.aw22.org/
A few facts can really clear the air.
And, regardless of George Washington's purported raising status, he was a regular mason when he died... none of which has ANYTHING to do with the reason I stated in my article for choosing him as the name source.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Alexandria Lodge No. 39 at Alexandria, Virginia, was warranted by the Provincial Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania (Ancient) on February 3, 1783." - Theron
ReplyDeleteLook very closely at the date "1783".
George Washington became a Mason on August 4, 1753. That is thirty years before Alexandria Lodge No. 39 was founded. This means he was Entered, Passed and Raised in an un-Charted "clandestine" lodge.
So... Theron, would you have sit in his lodge on the day he was Entered, Passed or Raised? Remember, you would be sitting in an un-Chartered lodge.
"Recognition" is at best a contrived affair. Your Grand Lodge recognizes some other Grand Lodge as "Regular." But "Regular" by what standards? Oh yes, I remember, it was the standards either they or the UGLE pulled out of their ass. In other words they made the whole thing up and for true believers, like you, it has some meaning.
It is NOT based on any "Ancient Landmarks" because there are no such things. You and I both know that the "Ancient Landmarks" are a tall tale mentioned by Anderson in his Constitutions of 1723. Unfortunately, he never said what they were, or where he even got the idea of their being "Ancient Landmarks".
So... the UGLE and some other Grand Lodges contrived to convince everyone that "Regularity" could be established based on a fable, and some people were dumb enough to believe them.
Now, here we are in the 21st century and your "Regular" and "Recognized" Grand Lodges are dying off like the Odd-Fellows before them. They are the butt of jokes to the general public and have no relevance to anyone but the deluded few who put their faith in absurdity.
All the while the rest of the Masonic world kept progressing along and abolished racism and sexism leaving you and your self-recognizing stooges light years behind them.
Let's see... The America GL's have lost over 50% of their membership since 1963. The Grand Orient of France has doubled its membership since 1963. Gee, doesn't that tell you something?
It seems that you and your buddies have a bad case of "Cranial Rectalitis" when it comes to reality. You sit around "recognizing" one another while the world passes you by.
Hehehe, gosh "Howard", you really are reaching here, aren't ya?
ReplyDeleteGeorge Washington was a regular mason when he died... regardless of the status of his lodge when he was raised.
And, c'mon brother, I don't care whether he was regular or not... why is that so hard to understand? Its never been an issue between us, why would it be an issue between me and George Washington?
If you read my blog entry, you would see I do not care about regularity on a personal level, its a grand lodge issue, and frankly, I am ok with the letting the grand lodge handle it.
Why are you so focused on minutia that has no relevance in real life. I can understand why you are angry about recognition, but if you are not a part of a regular, that is, recognized obedience, it is what it is, and there is a real reason for regularity, though I know you don't care about it... and why should you?
I am a Regular Mason and I don't care about it. The only time it even comes to my attention is when some non regular mason rails over it, and when I visit a lodge I have never visited before, to ensure I am keeping my obligation.
So all your railing about George Washington, I have to tell you, doesn't really mean anything, and is certainly not inconsistent with my position in using him as a namesake for non Prince Hall Regular Masonry. In fact, given my position on the whole issue, I would say using him is quintessentially consistent.
Take care brother.a
Theron,
ReplyDeleteThat's it, you don't even realize it, but you are not a "regular" Mason. As a matter of fact no one is. There is no such thing. It's something that was made-up to divide people into factions.
The UGLE did this to the advantage of the British Empire when they wanted control of the Suez canal.
When the 'Moderns' and 'Antients' were at war for seventy years and throwing barbs at one another there were brothers who belonged to both Grand Lodges, and no one did anything about it. It was a Grand Lodge issue and the brothers didn't seem to care about it at all.
You and certain other Masons have made such a BIG deal of it that I felt it was time someone called your cards and pointed-out what a bunch of total nonsense it all is.
Think about this for a moment. I was an Anglo-American Mason for twenty years and know the system inside and out. I have been with the Grand Orient of France for about a year, and I can honestly tell you that they are much more knowledgeable about Freemasonry than any American Grand Lodge. This is a fact pure and simple.
Does this make them superior Masons? No, not necessarily, but it does mean that they are more informed and educated about Freemasonry. They have something of value to offer all of us. This is why the TO lodge brothers visited withe Grand Orient. They realized what could be learned from these brothers.
Isn't about time that you guys come down off your high horse and start acting like Masons? Maybe everything isn't so cut and dried as you think?
Quit throwing up "regularity" when it's a meaning term that you guys made-up out of thin air. Anyone can claim to set standards but that doesn't mean everyone will agree. The Grand Orient clearly disagreed with the UGLE and stood their ground.
The Grand Orient is as legitimate as it gets. They were created by the Grand Lodge of England in 1728. Their pedigree is unquestionable.
As an Anglo-American Mason I was told I couldn't speak Masonically with these brothers. Now I know why. The UGLE and American GL's had a lot to hide that they didn't want anyone to know about. Now that I know and understand I think it's about time we correct the misunderstanding.
Theron,
ReplyDeleteLet's simplify all of this. Let's distill it down to its essence.
Are you in favor of the brotherhood of all mankind, or are you in favor of the brotherhood of the few?
It's that simple. This is the core of the entire argument.
I believe in a Freemasonry that strives towards the brotherhood of all mankind (humanity). I have stated this on many occasions. It's no secret.
Don't obfuscate or try to be politically correct. Do you believe in a Freemasonry that promotes the brotherhood of all of humanity or a brotherhood of the few?
Just state the facts and be done with it.
The UGLE and American GL's had a lot to hide that they didn't want anyone to know about. Now that I know and understand I think it's about time we correct the misunderstanding.
ReplyDeleteYou know, Howard, it might be a better use of your energy to show and tell us what you're learning in your GO, instead of ranting against the GLs. People being what they are, most of us are more open-minded about being educated when we're not being berated.
I'm just sayin'.
Tom A.,
ReplyDeleteBOOYA!!!!!
Of course I am interested, "Howard" (by the way, since everyone knows who you are, why do you NEVER post under your own name like many of us do? You have nothing to hide.)
ReplyDeleteThe problem is, I also want to be a member of a Regular Grand Lodge, and I am. Your issue is ONLY one of visitation, as I have noted endlessly here.
If you read my blog, you would see that is what I wrote as well. But that you ask me, here, shows you have not read it.
That's sad. It would have saved a bunch of wasted electrons on this comment area.
give it a try. Read my comments. They are quite clear as to my position.
http://beaconofmasoniclight.blogspot.com
So far, I am being read by over 3,000 individuals per month (based on actual reads of posts and time over 1 minute) with most coming to visit for over 10 minutes at a time, with multiple visits over the month, for over 7,000 reads per month in 78 countries.
Besides, my blog is SOOO relevant to your point.
"Why Regularity"
Theron,
ReplyDeleteThis isn't about visitation - or at least as far as I'm concerned it's not. I have no desire to be bored to tears sitting in an Anglo-American lodge with a bunch of racist rednecks who pass out KKK t-shirts from the trunks of their cars after the meeting. This is the mainstream Anglo-American Masonry I've been exposed to for twenty years. I refuse to ever lower myself to that level again.
This IS about a reality check over "regularity".
Brethren,
ReplyDeleteI really don't care too much about the regularity issue. It used to interest me, then I got really busy.
What does interest me is moral questions. I understand why two different Masonic organizations won't talk to each other. I understand completely. What I don't understand is what is lost by not interfering with a Mason who wishes to visit a lodge that his Grand Lodge or Grand Orient or whatever does not have official communications with.
The politics of recognition is tricky and it is based more in endorsement than anything else. Most people know that I am involved with the Grand Orient of the United States. So. Most people know that I used to be involved with the Grand Lodge of Michigan. So.
The problem is that there are some that won't even speak to me now because I left the Grand Lodge of Michigan. I find that odd as I have had several Brotherly discussions with the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Michigan. I have also had several converations with officers of other Grand Lodges and Grand Orients.
No matter what Masonic organization I am in I am still the same Brandt Smith that I was before, with all of my flaws and foibles. I am also the same Brandt Smith that many called Brother, and many still do. I just changed my address, I am still a Brother Master Mason.
Brother Theron, I would not try to visit a Grand Lodge of California lodge. I would not want to put them in that position. On the other hand I would require (as much as I could) that a Grand Lodge of California Mason sit down and have a beer with me. If you were to visit Euclid Lodge I would be required by my own ethics to inform you that the Grand Lodge of California would frown upon it and may expel you for the act. We would preclude you due to the jurisdiction that you work under but we would inform you.
What I would like to see is that we all meet on the level and talk openly as we many of us have. We don't need to sit in each others' lodges. We do need to meet as Masons. Academic settings come to mind. I am sure that the Center for Inquiry has a branch or two in California and they would love to have someone talk to them about Masonry at one of their meetings. (hint)
Brothers, Masonry is the topic. How do we do Masonry together while maintaining a mutual respect?
Frat:.
Brandt
I'm willing to work with them Bro. Brandt, but I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them.
ReplyDeleteThese "Freemasons" allowed their "Grand Masters" to toss a bunch of good brothers under the bus while they stood idly by and did nothing. As far as any real sense of brotherhood goes they lost all respect long ago through their own cowardice.
To be honest, if one of them showed up at Sirius, I don't know if I could, in good conscience, even sit in lodge with them.
Masons that can't be trusted as true brothers don't belong in a lodge of brothers who have proven their worth through the test of fire.
Brother Howard,
ReplyDeleteIt is tough to evolve as "Free-Masonic Brothers" when in actuality you are no more than a 501c10 Volunteer, in an organization that is a federally regulated non profit fraternal organization.
This 501c10 has highjacked a history of a Legend and made it their clubs theme.
So, volunteers to feel special, will defend their "heritage" and "special purpose"(recognition?) so they feel different from other 501c10s.
DIVISION and INEQUALITY is not an Altruistic Tenet.
Only a petty 510c10 would try to have seperation within their system. Trying to tell others that they are irregular or clandestine... American masonry is not a Brotherhood, it is a 501c10 with a bunch of volunteers making up funny titles and costumes to feel important.
The masonry of George Washington did not have any Illustrious Whatevers prancing around their Lodges!
Anyone trying to "pull masonic rank" in a Lodge back then would have been run out!
George Washington masonry is like the Knights of Columbus really having lineage to Knights who travelled with Crsitopher Columbus, or that commandery actually has lineage to the REAL organizations that used to exist!
Ha...LMAO
Lineage claims by a 501c10 is hilarious.....
no real Lodeg of Real freemasonry would allow federal oversight!
George Washingtons masonry was the fedral governments watch dog, not vise versa?
"Howard"
ReplyDeleteits hard to take you seriously when you categorize ALL Regular Freemasonry as Redneck Racist Cowards... while also talking out the other side of your mouth and saying there is value and things to be learned from Regular Masonry.
And look at your fellow travelers... the dunce there isn't really much of a rocket scientist. He is just another Renfield, like Bradford, echoing, imperfectly, what you say, and injecting nothing but ignorance and spite into what you are saying that otherwise is worthy of consideration.
You KNOW most freemasonry is not as you find it in the south... and you know that brothers are moving to isolate the grand obediences that are unwilling to treat ALL men as equal.
And "Howard", you note the rest of us were "cowards" when you were expelled... I have asked you hundreds of times what you wanted us to do. You have YET to state what we could do, or could possibly HAVE done that would have changed the action of the Grand Master of Georgia.
There is value in the Grand Orient, but its irregular in and of itself, so I will not sit in lodge there, but the Grand Orient is NOT the solution or the be all and end all either.
All you want is for the whole concept of regularity to be dropped... to what end? So YOU can sit in Regular" lodges again? You hate them, so what purpose would there be in that change?
You hate all the racist masons, are you actually suggesting that if the concept of regularity were to vanish in the next breath that you would want those men in your lodges???
What is it, exactly, that you want?
To be considered a mason, right? Well, everyone you admire and respect DOES consider you a mason. Those that don't you have made clear you don't care about, so, to quote an old lady, "Where's the beef?"
To be honest, if one of them showed up at Sirius, I don't know if I could, in good conscience, even sit in lodge with them.
ReplyDeleteOne of whom? A former brother or Grand Lodge officer in Georgia, or, a Mason in the system that you formerly belonged to?
Masons that can't be trusted as true brothers don't belong in a lodge of brothers who have proven their worth through the test of fire.
So, in order to be accepted by your lodge, one must be kicked out of your former brand of Masonry or one who has never stepped foot in a masonic lodge?
Theron,
ReplyDeleteI, like many others, are merely the ghosts of Christmas past. We are the product of mainstream American Masonry. Are you unhappy with what your organization has created? Did it really make good men better, or did it create hate and distrust among brothers? I think the answer is obvious.
I have told you many times but you didn't seem to understand the importance of what I was saying; you cannot build a brotherhood in the absence of trust and fairness. These are two key elements that are essential to its success. The ghosts of Christmas past are proof that American Masonry has neither of these elements.
There was a time when all of us worked together for the benefit of the Craft and our brotherhood was strong, but that time is now passed. There is going back to those times because trust has been sacrificed on the altar of ego and pride.
It is human nature to be slow to forget betrayal by those whom one has trusted. The results of such things are always the same. You shouldn't be surprised by how the ghosts treat you and your organization. Treachery comes at a high price.
"So, in order to be accepted by your lodge, one must be kicked out of your former brand of Masonry or one who has never stepped foot in a masonic lodge?" - LVX
ReplyDeleteIf I had my way we would only work with new men who have never been exposed to the disease that infects the old system. Those who come from the old system bring too much baggage, and too many ideas of how things ought to be. They want and need rules to tell them what to do and how to act. They don't know how to act in a society that promotes free-thought, self-empowerment, and personal enlightenment. They have a much more difficult time adapting to what appears to them as a paradigm-shift in thinking and operating.
Universal Brotherhood....
ReplyDeleteBut only with those that agree with me...
Doesn't sound too universal to me.
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ReplyDeleteSo, "Howard"
ReplyDeleteI now see why you are so angry lately... I just got some papers delivered to me snail mail. Some papers from Cuyahoga County, restraining orders and motions and such...
hmmm, first shot across the bow? The list of names is... impressive.
Sorry, now I understand.
"Universal Brotherhood....
ReplyDeleteBut only with those that agree with me...
Doesn't sound too universal to me." - Charles
Yes and no. For example Bro. Brandt and I disagree on many things regarding Freemasonry, but we do agree on a few basic principles:
1. Freemasonry is dedicated to the brotherhood of humanity.
2. Freemasons act with fairness and are trustworthy.
3. Freemasonry is a natural philosophy and a progressive science.
4. Freemasonry promotes tolerance among men.
5. Freemasons are ethical people.
Freemasonry is an active proponent of Liberty, Fraternity and Equality for all people everywhere.
We're looking for the few good people who can agree with these concepts.
So, yes you will have to agree with a few things but everything else is a matter of freedom of conscience.
Theron,
ReplyDeleteThat's old news from back in January. Are you just now catching-up?
This kind of petty stuff is to be expected. No one has lost any sleep over it.
Howard - I made some minor changes on your statement.
ReplyDeleteI exchanged the word "new" with white and the phrase "the old system" with "Africa".
If I had my way we would only work with white men who have never been exposed to the disease that infects Africa. Those who come from Africa bring too much baggage, and too many ideas of how things ought to be. They want and need rules to tell them what to do and how to act. They don't know how to act in a society that promotes free-thought, self-empowerment, and personal enlightenment. They have a much more difficult time adapting to what appears to them as a paradigm-shift in thinking and operating.
What do you think?
Howard is right, he and I have disagreed often. It has never interfered with the fact that he can call me in the middle of the night with a need and I will drop everything to help him and vice versa. He is also right that we agree on certain fundamental principles.
ReplyDeleteBrother Howard has had to put up with me being stubborn (and that is one of my more charming qualities).
The issue is not of regularity (whatever that means) and being able to visit Anglo-Saxon lodges (and that is not derogatory it is descriptive and historically correct). I don't really care to. On the same token many Brothers from the Anglo-Saxon system would not care to visit my lodge. So.
Lodges are meant for two things. To communicate information not meant for profanes and to celebrate Free-Masonry. Free-Masonry itself (being a means and not an end) takes place outside of the lodge in the world. So what is the issue? I don't really see one.
Frat:.
Brandt
LVX,
ReplyDeleteIf had intended to use Africa in my statement I would have.
Changing the words changes the intent and meaning of what I said.
I admittedly have a very low opinion of Anglo-American Freemasonry for the reasons I have previously stated.
I don't trust Anglo-American Masons because they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy. By changing my words to make it appear that I am a racist, it is yet another proof to me why I should never trust Anglo-American Masons. Twisting the words of others to mean something other than what they intended is the act of a malicious person.
If that was your intent you succeeded.
Theron,
ReplyDeleteWe need to quit arguing on forums and blogs. You argue much better over a beer, and I get much smarter after two or three. :-)
If you'll still be in SC this weekend I may ride my Harley over and we can grab some seafood down at Hymans in the old city.
I don't trust Anglo-American Masons because they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy.
ReplyDeleteBlanket statement.
By changing my words to make it appear that I am a racist, it is yet another proof to me why I should never trust Anglo-American Masons. Twisting the words of others to mean something other than what they intended is the act of a malicious person.
No - my intention was not to call you a racist. You have never given me any indication that you are. In fact, I will even go on record and state that I do not believe that you are a racist.
My intent was to show you just how ugly your statement was.
All I did, Howard, was change 2 words in 3 positions.
Your meaning was quite clear. You may not be racist, but you have already judged me simply due to the fact that I belong to the only Masonic fraternity that exists in my state. Because of this, you have judged me not fit, not flexible, unenlightened, incapable of original thought or change.
Is that not malicious and untrustworthy of you?
If the changing of one adjective and one noun can create a statement that ugly - then what does it say about the message?
LVX,
ReplyDeleteI spent twenty years trying to turn things around in Anglo-American Freemasonry only to be repeatedly stabbed in the back by men such as Brent Morris, Albert Garner, and Buster Horne.
We are only four months into 2008 and already they have expelled multiple brother Master Masons on either trumped-up charges or for seeking racial equality.
How can you expect me or any other reasonable person witnessing these actions to trust the leadership of Anglo-American Freemasonry?
Further, the vast majority of Anglo-American follow blindly along with whatever their leadership tells them to do. They do this without even a consideration of the moral consequences. Under such circumstances it is difficult to imagine how someone could trust this group of people.
You may be different but by remaining a part of such an organization it brings you into question as well.
I've seen too many evil things done to good people by Anglo-American Freemasonry. After witnessing these things over a long period of time I feel that it is reasonable not to trust these people.
For instance, if a man was a repeated child molester over a twenty year period would you be willing to hire him to babysit your children? I think not.
What reasonable argument could be made that you should trust him? None that I can think of.
Perhaps I am overly cautious but I have good reasons to be so.
Hymans?
ReplyDeleteGood for me... as long as we're not talking Ryans, though Smokey Bones on the North Side has pretty good ribs and pulled pork...
Let me know when and where and I will be there brother... and I will bring a camera, so the folks can see we CAN meet as brothers without the long knives!
Call me and lets figure out a time and place. I get to pay though.
Hymans is probably the most famous seafood place in Charleston. It's been around for about seventy years or so.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou may be different but by remaining a part of such an organization it brings you into question as well.
ReplyDeleteOK Howard, you got me.
It's not due to the fact that the Grand Lodge in my state is above board. Nor is it due to the fact that 98% of the masons that I have met in my state are really decent people. It also has nothing to do with the fact that I love and trust my brothers, not to mention the fact, that no other Masonic obediences exists in my state.
You pegged me - I am looking to be one of the evil elite.
I am only in it for me and I can't wait to become a Grand Lodge officer where I will create edicts like mandatory fish fry's every Friday and one hour insta-mason classes. I will expel anyone looking at the Qabalah and use my connections to become a governor, senator or astronaut and skim major bucks from *chuckle* charities which will serve as my personal recreation fund.
Wow - it really felt good to get that off my chest.
If I did have a change of heart, I suppose I could dump my brothers and jump into your organization, which is so kick ass that all I ever hear is how superior it is to the evil empire, which I have currently sold my soul to.
Yeah - that's the ticket. I could be involved in lots of online meetings -- as none of these obediences have lodges that are within hundreds of miles of my place -- and gain amazing amounts of knowledge, as well as life altering experiences, so that I too will be properly prepared to rail again the Anglo Masonic machine that keeps us all down!
I'm stoked - where do I sign up?
I am only in it for me and I can't wait to become a Grand Lodge officer where I will create edicts like mandatory fish fry's every Friday and one hour insta-mason classes.
ReplyDeleteWoo-hoo!
I'm telling ya, I went over to the order of the mystic purple socks last year, and it is totally teh awesome! The groupies, the parties, the fried fish, the rides on the black helicopters... it's like Disney!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete?????????
ReplyDeletedaily
ReplyDeleteThis whole mess....is a means towards creating Universal Global Masonry....Nobody sees it and so we all keep playing into the hands of those who would wish to see American sovereignty demolished. And since the US has been wandering the world defacing the sovereignty of other nations, I suppose we have it coming...which was the plan all along....hooray for the day when you dolts realize that the problem at hand is that our liberty is under direct assault from many fronts that also claim to defend it. I appreciate the comments of Adolphe Isaac Cremieux as they came closest to contributing some meaningful input to this discourse. Let us not use this as a pissing contest, but as a forum to discuss these issues before it becomes too late for anyone to dare express any opinion that might be considered unamerican and/or unmasonic. Careful br*thers the media is coming and we are losing our time for action to bickering and bullocks.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe natural source of secrecy is fear. When any new religion over-runs a former religion, the professors of the new become the persecutors of the old. We see this in all instances that history brings before us. When Hilkiah the priest and Shaphan the scribe, in the reign of King Josiah, found, or pretended to find, the law, called the law of Moses, a thousand years after the time of Moses, (and it does not appear from 2 Kings, xxii., xxiii., that such a law was ever practiced or known before the time of Josiah), he established that law as a national religion, and put all the priests of the Sun to death. When the christian religion over-ran the Jewish religion, the Jews were the continual subject of persecution in all christian countries. When the Protestant religion in England over-ran the Roman Catholic religion, it was made death for a Catholic priest to be found in England. As this has been the case in all the instances we have any knowledge of, we are obliged to admit it with respect to the case in question, and that when the christian religion over-ran the religion of the Druids in Italy, ancient Gaul, Britain, and Ireland, the Druids became the subject of persecution. This would naturally and necessarily oblige such of them as remained attached to their original religion to meet in secret, and under the strongest injunctions of secrecy. Their safety depended upon it. A false brother might expose the lives of many of them to destruction; and from the remains of the religion of the Druids, thus preserved, arose the institution which, to avoid the name of Druid, took that of Mason, and practiced under this new name the rites and ceremonies of Druids.
ReplyDeleteI now understand why Volunteers in this 501c10 must adhere to this regularity concept.
FEAR of the old system in which this 501c10 has replaced.
I now understand the zealous volunteers trying to cling to the Old Legend that they replaced with their NEW ONE, called 501c10 non profit fraternal organization named Freemasonry.
The system which replaced the Original Fraternity not gov't regulated.
This message has been moved here from the thread about the passing of Bro. Dunn.
ReplyDeleteFuture flame-ish comments, like this one that invokes Kool-Aid drinking, will be deleted if they are posted anywhere other than the Masonic Corral.
— W.S.
+ + +
Rmoahals wrote:
Manny
What flavor is that Kool Aid your guzzling?
Does it help wash down dry pork?
Ed "Burger" King is an authority over his own little masonic corner with a few cheerleaders behind him.
His writings are to make him feel better and no more truths in them than Ho-Dap ndoes....
God bless manny......
like Theron, you will learn the truth... just watch the evil thoughts you put out to innocent brothers!
The cosmic balance works mysteriously and you and ed have no influence over it!
sit back and enjoy the ride!
In the immortal words of Led Zeppelin: " Your time is gonna come"
Do not owrry about masonic entities, they have been around for ever, and will continue to be.
Instead of trying to destroy others, try and strengthen your own foundations.. they are weakening with all the uneducated one day masons brought into the craft to join the scottish rite all in one day. Your foundation is weak. Start a masonic research group or something, just quit worrying about whether other masonic bodies meet your statndards!
Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:12:00 AM
Rmoahals wrote:
ReplyDeleteManny
"What flavor is that Kool Aid your guzzling?
Does it help wash down dry pork?
Ed "Burger" King is an authority over his own little masonic corner with a few cheerleaders behind him.
His writings are to make him feel better and no more truths in them than Ho-Dap ndoes....
God bless manny......
like Theron, you will learn the truth... just watch the evil thoughts you put out to innocent brothers!
The cosmic balance works mysteriously and you and ed have no influence over it!
sit back and enjoy the ride!
In the immortal words of Led Zeppelin: " Your time is gonna come"
Do not owrry about masonic entities, they have been around for ever, and will continue to be.
Instead of trying to destroy others, try and strengthen your own foundations.. they are weakening with all the uneducated one day masons brought into the craft to join the scottish rite all in one day. Your foundation is weak. Start a masonic research group or something, just quit worrying about whether other masonic bodies meet your statndards!"
Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:12:00 AM
I have answered this on another Blog but since it was removed from the owner.. Same owner of this blog.. I will answer again..
Koolaid is not my thing. Don't understand the point you are trying to make?
"Dry Pork" This is also an ignorant thing to write. I do not hide the fact that I am Jewish. This an Anti-Semitic statement. Not surprising from the Halcyon group. Your leader Jeff one emailed me "You are a Nazi" basically because I didn't agree with him and could see right through him. At least he signed his name to is which is more then I can say for most of the others in your group.
Bro. Ed King posts when he has proof and investigates thoroughly.
Bro. Chris Hodapp is another dedicated Brother who simply calls the shots the way they are.
Theron was not wrong. Remember that at first he was very accepting of J.P. and while not agreeing with him thought he meant well. He was taken in by this individual as well. It did not take long before the Masonic world saw him for a fraud and someone who just has a need to be important.
The courts will no doubt straighten things out. In the meantime you nor your band of wannabe Masons have never answered questions set forth to you on the various sites. I will not repeat them and you are familiar with them.
So I set the record straight.. Real Masons do not steal, bushwhack, blind side or break their Obligations. When they do and they are expelled such as was your leader they are not considered Masons. The cowardly actions taken by this very small group men was not and is not Masonic. Nothing was done with consent of all the Brethren just the small group of men that planned the takeover and breakaway. I am not speaking of all the members of the original Lodge but the leaders that planned and put this into action. They were no different then 3 bad guys we all know. What they did was just as bad and evil. These men have no remorse. In the end I believe truth and honestly will prevail. I also believe that some of the men that agreed to this move were conned into it by the leaders. In time and one by one they too will open their eyes and see the deception involved.
I don't think Ed and I are trying to convince anyone of anything. They actions taken by these men and your posts tell the world exactly what it is and what it is about.
" Your time is gonna come" Is this some type of threat? You are not the first anti_mason to do so.
Sir, I do not hide who I am as you and your people do. I do not hide my Masonic Affiliation. Perhaps I should but I stand by my love and faith in G-d and Masonry.
Out of curiosity, why is it that you guys who claim to be true Masons hide who you are, what Lodge you are a member of and to what Grand Lodge Jurisdiction you are under?
UGLA, GOUSA, or whatever the group calls themselves today has not now nor have they ever had Recognition by any legitimate Grand Lodge or Masonic Body. The groups can be traced by a simple Internet search.
Your foundation is weak. Start a Masonic research group or something, just quit worrying about whether other Masonic bodies meet your standards!"
Sir, you are also wrong about Mainstream Freemasonry. Good men are seeking out Freemasonry in great numbers. Our Lodge keeps growing and the new members are active, practicing Masonry, studying and learning. The lessons are never ending Sir. While your words about Masonry read well, it is more then what flows out well from the mouth. It is what is in his heart and his soul. Masonry is strong today and will remain so. Masonry is in a man's heart and once his journey starts it never ends. What you and your group are selling is not Masonry. It is bogus Masonry. Masons don't call others (Mason or not) Nazi or refer to eating "pork" knowing they are Jewish. They do not secretly plan illegal acts or taking over what does not belong to them. I have known from day one what the J.P. con game was all about. Good luck and I hope that you someday will open your eyes.
I feel terrible that good men are most likely being tricked into joining your group and thinking they are joining a Masonic Lodge.
It is a shame what has been done by this group of people that violated everything Freemasonry stands for and lives by.
Sincerely,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California
(Real name, real Lodge and real Grand Lodge
Brother Blanco:
ReplyDeleteSome posters choose a screen name for valid reasons. You might want to check out the posting I have on the subject over at Movable Jewel.
Traveling Man
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletethe "dry pork" comment was a slam against the crappy food served after meetings, not anti-semetic!
ReplyDeleteget a grip paranoid male!
IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
talk about ego-centric?!
LMAO about you thinking the "dry pork" comment was meant to be anti-semetic!
Thanks Manny for the laugh!
I choose an arbritrary "meal" served at mainstream Lodges, and you turn into an anti-semetic comment.
You and Ed King seem to "interpret" things any way you seem fit and run with it!
Uh OK......
Remember, it is not about you or me......
Manny, do you want a wahmbulance to heal your anti-semetic boo boo?
Can you say "boy who cried wolf"?
Manny Wrote:
ReplyDelete"Dear Sir,
Respectfully one doesn't need to have been there to see and know what has happened. What has happend at Halcyon is the result of eveil companionship. Kid Sir, it does not take a brain surgeon to see what has gone on resulting in the hostile takeover of a Lodge. This is very simple and basic Freemasonry. The Lodge is under the jurisdiction of Grand Lodge of Ohio. With few members and a ring leader the Lodge and it's property was taken over by a group of men who are not Masons in their heart nor anywhere else. If I take something that is not mine it is stealing and it is wrong. The members were not given due and timely notice. I think you know these things as well or better then I do. The person pulling the strings at that time was a person who had many hoodwinked. Most now see him for what he is and see his personal agenda. One thing for sure is that the action taken by this group of rogue Masons was done in a very calculated manner. Name changes of the Temple Board and other properties, no notification to the members are things that just scrath the surface. There was nothing Masonic in what these people did. UGLA, GOUSA,are but a but a few of the names the governing group has used. The small nucleus of people that were involved in this takeover do not represent the majority of the Lodge. Most members of The GOUSA group while posting good values do not live by the values they write. Most Masons sign their names to their posts and are proud of their Masonic Affiliations. Members of these groups seldom sign their name but use a screen name. This can go on and on. Sir, (Obviously I can't write in your name)please feel free to set the record straight if the owner of this blog would permit. Questions would be: 1. How many members of the real, original Lodge voted on seperating ways and leaving Grand Lodg of Ohio? Was it a majority of the members? Were the members informed at least 30 days before the vote? Were the name changes of the Temple Properties or the Charity involved done before the vote by the few members that were present? Was this entire situation started after Jeff's talk at the Lodge? Was Grand Lodge given due and timely notice that there was going to be a takeover of any kind? The questions can go on and on. Mostly Sir, I find it hard to take anyone seriously that does not sign their name to it. Please do so in your response. I hope I cleared up the doubt you might have had regarding certain members of Halcyon Lodge's un-Masonic takeover. Truth always wins in the end and it will previal in this case as well.
"I do not fear for the sake of my Wife and Children along with myself are targeted by the Grand Lodge of F & A M of Ohio."
I am not quite sure what this means? Grand Lodge (real ones) are made us of very honorable men. They did not wake up one day and say "I am going to be Grand Master or Grand Lodge today." The people that run Grand Lodges have spent many years preparing for their positions. Their Staffs are made up of trained, organized professionals. They are not going to threaten or hurt anyone. To suggest that they would do such a thing is further proof that this group is way out in left field and out of line..
Sincerely,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California"
Manny,
Thank you for proving my point that you and the late Theron Dunn were ignorant of the facts in the Halcyon issue for if you had the facts, you would not have to ask questions as you did above now world you?
Ignorance is nothing to be a shamed of, as we are all ignorant.
Q.E.D.
quod erat demonstrandum
All the Best,
T.S.
Manny the Clueless Wonder,
ReplyDeletethe claim your time is gonna come, again you have misinterpreted, meant, since Theron is in the celestial Lodge above, I would like to believe he knows the truth now, where you are still in the dark, and like theron, we all must die one day, and then YOU will know the truth.
Thinking it was a threat!?
LMAO again!
thanks for the laughs manny.
Also, what part of Israel does the Blanco family come from?
Blanco sounds hispanic or italian, not jewish, and since we do not follow your carreer, I would have no clue you had any jewish blood in you.
So, manuel, can you chill out on thinking anyone cares about yours and Burger Kings messed up filters on perception?!
Traveling Man said...
ReplyDeleteBrother Blanco:
Some posters choose a screen name for valid reasons. You might want to check out the posting I have on the subject over at Movable Jewel.
Traveling Man
Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:21:00 AM
Thank you Sir...
Rmoahals said...
ReplyDeletethe "dry pork" comment was a slam against the crappy food served after meetings, not anti-semetic!
get a grip paranoid male!
IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
talk about ego-centric?!
LMAO about you thinking the "dry pork" comment was meant to be anti-semetic!
Thanks Manny for the laugh!
I choose an arbritrary "meal" served at mainstream Lodges, and you turn into an anti-semetic comment.
You and Ed King seem to "interpret" things any way you seem fit and run with it!
Uh OK......
Remember, it is not about you or me......
Manny, do you want a wahmbulance to heal your anti-semetic boo boo?
Can you say "boy who cried wolf"?
I expect nothing more from the wannabe crowd.. Very easy to make such remarks when one cowardly hide behind a screen name.. I don't cry about anti-semetic remarks pal. I take my being a Jew very seriously as I do Family, Freemasonry and my Country. "Never again" means just that to me, now or in the future. I do appreciate being put in the same sentence as Bro. Ed King. He is a man of honor. How can your comments be interpreted in any other manner then it was used. Again, it is very typical of the J.P groupies.
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of CA.
masontruth@aol.com
Rmoahals said...
ReplyDeleteManny the Clueless Wonder,
the claim your time is gonna come, again you have misinterpreted, meant, since Theron is in the celestial Lodge above, I would like to believe he knows the truth now, where you are still in the dark, and like theron, we all must die one day, and then you will know the truth.
Thinking it was a threat!?
LMAO again!
thanks for the laughs manny.
Also, what part of Israel does the Blanco family come from?
Blanco sounds hispanic or italian, not jewish, and since we do not a follow your carreer, I would have no clue you had any jewish blood in you.
So, manuel, can you chill out on thinking anyone cares about yours and Burger Kings messed up filters on perception?!
-----------------------------------
Dear Sir,
It doesn't take death to know the truth. I wish Bro. Theron was still with us. I did agree with him when it came to breakaway groups. The difference is he was just too nice about it. He spoke very highly of the leader, founder of this movement until he reveled his true colors.
I don't view any of you as a threat I view you as a joke.. There is a difference.
For your information. My mother's maiden name is Liebowitz. We are European Jews. Very foolish question. There are many Jews from many backgrounds that just might not sound "Jewish."
"Burger King" low and cheap shot. Your posts show you have no class.
The Bogus Masonry crowd shows exactly what makes them not a Mason everytime they post. Anyone that disagrees with you guys is met with such attacks. Do you think that wearing a Masonic pin or saying you are a Mason indeed makes you a Mason? Sorry Charlie!
What you guys are involved in and part of is more criminal then Masonic. Regardless of what happens in court what a few renegades at Halcyon did was terrible. Those acts alone prove there is no Masonry involved but a few puppets being led by one control freak puppet master. Post what you like, insult as you wish,hide like cowards (and cowards you are) truth is always prevails. You folks change names like people change clothing. You attack good man like Ed King but he is a man of conviction as most Masons are. You attack Theron even in his death. What Bro. Theron wrote is true. You validate his opinion in your every post. Go hide behind a rock.
Sincerely,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of CA.
masontruth@aol.com
To ed king The Coward,
ReplyDeleteHow convenient of you to think you can write your lies and hide. You are a coward. I have and will continue to try to contact you personally about your postings you coward.
IF need be I will come to Maine to confront you face to face you coward.
You are a crazed, evil, sick individual, and it is my intent to track you down to confront you personally about you attack you got it coward?
Your days of at-will attacks on the innocent STOP NOW.
If you are a man (which has already been proven you aren't) you may contact me you coward. You are a gutless coward hiding behind your computer. Just like many of the old blue lodge cult members. Hammering away in hopes of holding on to your little kingdom.
I'M WAITING ON YOU COWARD.
David Cooksey
gdavidcooksey@yahoo.com
david cooksey said...
ReplyDeleteTo ed king The Coward,
How convenient of you to think you can write your lies and hide. You are a coward. I have and will continue to try to contact you personally about your postings you coward.
IF need be I will come to Maine to confront you face to face you coward.
You are a crazed, evil, sick individual, and it is my intent to track you down to confront you personally about you attack you got it coward?
Your days of at-will attacks on the innocent STOP NOW.
If you are a man (which has already been proven you aren't) you may contact me you coward. You are a gutless coward hiding behind your computer. Just like many of the old blue lodge cult members. Hammering away in hopes of holding on to your little kingdom.
I'M WAITING ON YOU COWARD.
David Cooksey
gdavidcooksey@yahoo.com
*
This would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. David Cooksey claiming Ed King is "hiding behind" his computer? After all of the sock puppetry and lunatic fringe posts from Cooksey in the last couple of years?
W.S.,
Do you honestly want your blog to be the venue for what is clearly a seriously deranged internet stalker to make threats from? I know how dedicated you are to not interfering in flame wars here, but methinks Mr. Cooksey has crossed a dangerous line into actionable territory.
Look out, Brother King!
I see you like hiding to morris
ReplyDeleteBurning Temper,
ReplyDeleteI think Bro. Cooksey's ranting comments are immature and inflammatory, but not actionable.
His comments, along with many other comments by various individuals, as well as various articles posted by Ed King on his own site over the years, show the pathetic joke that much of Freemasonry has become.
I love a good discussion. I love a good debate. I even love a good rant. But I've seen damn little of any of that lately, in any Masonic forum or blog, and certainly not here at The Taper.
Unfortunately, because of my libertarian live-and-let-live blogging style, people have come to think they can write any sort of hate-mongering claptrap here and find an audience.
Originally, I hoped guests could leave intelligent posts, well-written and well-thought out responses to items of interest.
Unfortunately, I've seen that many Masons, not just Bro. Cooksey, succumb to the lowest common denominator -- that is, name-calling.
That's why I created The Masonic Corral, to give those who refuse to get over whatever hurt feelings they have as a result of some Masonic wrong, perceived or real, that has been dealt them. I've tried to isolate the hate into this one section.
Bro. Cooksey posted his hate in the appropriate place. The Corral is the "Masonic vent."
Personally, I've never understood the psychological need for ad hominem attacks. There is enough wrong in the Masonic world to discuss without focusing on Masonic personalities you've probably never even met.
If Bro. King or Bro. Morris has said or done something you don't agree with, discuss or even attack their ideas or their statements. It's insane to simply bitch and moan about these men's existence; instead argue against their ideas if you don't like them.
Short of watching for true actionable offenses, such as direct threats of bodily harm, I'm not going to police this section, the Masonic Corral.
I do wish people would learn to better control their hurt egos, and get past their issues. Or at least write intelligent posts about their problems, instead of merely whining and spewing hate towards specific persons.
— W.S.
I found in the last several days that ed king's despicable remark he posted on his website concerning my Mother's illness means nothing to other's. I am the problem. As long as anyone attacks my Mother I will continue to be a problem.
ReplyDeleteWhen the rest of you have to witness the pain and destruction caused by cancer on one of your family members and then see a comment posted making light of it please let me know how you feel.
One thing I have learned the last several days is masonry is a shell.
I have nothing more to say to any of you.
WS,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to think others are here for serious commentary and debate. Why would they come here for that?
While it is good to 'air the laundry' as they say, it's pathetic to air a one-sided hate missive like those from that Sandy person who has obviously been slighted somewhere and is just out for revenge and call it 'journalism'. For example, in her latest article regarding the Brazilian incident with the Jesters, where is just ONE quote or even a 'I tried to talk to someone in the Jesters, but the wouldn't return my calls'? It's not there, and it's crappy 'journalism' (if you can still pretend to call it that). Many of your guest posters and, yes, you WS, deliver one-sided, Rush Limbaugh-style rants.
Fox News is more 'fair and balanced'. I do not take Fox News seriously, nor the Colbert Report, nor the Burning Taper. It's all a joke. IF those Jesters are acquitted (you'll admit a possibility exists until they are convicted), I doubt either Ms. Frost or the BT will report it.
As for the Jesters and Shriners, I do not belong and have no immediate plans to join. I know some great Shriners and know some pretty crappy human beings in them. I can't and will not claim they are superhuman as is often claimed of the G.O.ofU.S. when they act EXACTLY like the Shrine ('we went and got drunk off our ass and had a great old time and that's real masonry' as one article on the B.T. announced some time ago of the G.O.of.U.S. sounds EXACTLY like some of those Shriners and Jesters).
Personally, I have no problem with the Shrine (and the Jesters) leaving the Blue Lodge if they want. That's up to them. Those who are Masons will not leave their lodge if they do. Those who are not Masons will be no loss.
Reporting facts is useful, and many Masons find the actions of those who go astray as sad and not reflective of Masonry at all. It doesn't make it journalism whenOf course, when someone exercises their 'liberty of conscience', the detractors come out of the woodwork and call it 'news'. Yes, Hitler used his 'liberty of conscience'. Is it right that YOU get to decide whether he was or not? It should be when they start stepping on the rights of other people, but those who call for it here only do so when it is convenient to THEIR liberty of conscience, but readily attack others when they use their own.
Just claim to have integrity and remain 'fair and balanced'. Everyone will continue to laugh at you when you whine that no one takes this site as a serious one with integrity. As you say, if you offended ask yourself why and then go fix yourself.
"I found in the last several days that ed king's despicable remark he posted on his website concerning my Mother's illness means nothing to other's. I am the problem. As long as anyone attacks my Mother I will continue to be a problem.
ReplyDeleteWhen the rest of you have to witness the pain and destruction caused by cancer on one of your family members and then see a comment posted making light of it please let me know how you feel.
One thing I have learned the last several days is masonry is a shell.
I have nothing more to say to any of you."
David,
You don't have to say anything, but you might consider that you said nothing about E. King's alledged comments about your in your post. Not all of us read Brother King's blog very often, as it's not as funny as this one.
IF Ed King made such egregrious personal comments, it would be appropriate of you to provide a link so we might examine for ourselves the purported offense. The site is a bit difficult to navigate, so please do offer a link.
I pray for your mother and you, and hope for the best.
The below comment was made within the train of talking about me.
ReplyDeleteI called the GS of ME and was promised that he would get back to me yet no word but this has been removed.
I had asked for prayer request on forums I was a member of and got private emails of encouragement for which I am am forever grateful.
I have said all I intend to say of this matter. I do not believe
"MOMMY, MOMMY....
What's particularly comical in all of this is that the horrid Grand Lodges which these fellows despise are the FIRST places they turn to trying to hide from the harsh light of indictments like ours. They regularly write e-mails to Grand Masters of various Grand Lodges bemoaning how they've been mischaracterized on this website, sometimes using family situations (real or fantasy) to appeal to the soft-hearted nature of Masonic leadership whom they've regularly accused of being lying, cheating, spineless patsies. (It's odd sometimes to hear the claim that they're dealing with a family member's terminal illness never stopping to think that others might be in the same circumstances but managing to cope....)"
The only reference that Google brings up to you directly and the MasonicInfo site is this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.masonicinfo.com/vulcan.htm
It says nothing about your mother, David, and Google brings up nothing else indicating you by name related to the MasonicInfo site.
There is an apology (admittedly, of sorts only) on the site:
"And then there's poor David who STILL refuses to provide substantive proof of the issues involved. We've also removed a statement that he chose to deliberately misinterpret and offer our apologies for any misunderstandings."
Unfortunately, we cannot read the removed statements.
Howard Roarke laughably wrote:
ReplyDelete"The Grand Orient clearly disagreed with the UGLE and stood their ground."
The Grand Orient clearly folded to the wishes of the Catholic Church, and cowed to the desires of the pope. They failed entirely to 'stand their ground'. They gave into pressure from the Catholic church and dropped their trousers and their priniciples. If they stood up any more, they'd trip over their own pantlegs (again). Next thing you know, they'll get rid of the requirment to follow the moral law-assuming they haven't already. After that they'll eliminate the need for brotherhood too, if the Catholic church puts pressure on again they'll hide away as they did before. Yeah, they'll stand up by laying down again. That must be 'progessive' and 'liberal'. Keep it.
Howard Roarke wrote:
ReplyDelete"...I am a racist"
Careful what you write. If someone can change what you say, the can also misquote. You said here, "Good Masons from all obediences (GL's) have much to contribute."
Later, you say that there are no good masons in the Regular lodges.
"Your "regularity" is something made up by the UGLE after 1813. The Grand Orient of France follows the regularity of the original Grand Lodge of London, established in 1717."
This is like saying that all Americans are British citizens because they ruled us once. Doesn't work that way. England has taken away our citizenship as we have removed ourselves from that government and like the G.O. has removed itself from the government of the U.G.L.E. and the original Grand Lodge of London you refer to. It's disingenuous of you to claim that the G.O.o.F. can trace that history fairly, just as it would be of me to claim British citizenship based on the fact that at one point we were all British subjects.
This is not about "My Masonry is better then yours." I is about where Masonry starts in a man and how he acts in his life. If Masonry is in his heart then a dues card is just an added bonus. I posted the following regarding the recent change of attitude by some members of GOUSA/UGLA:
ReplyDeleteIn recent times I see members of the UGLA/GOUSA crowd extending a hand of friendship. I thought to myself that I should re-read their blogs and see if maybe I could be wrong about this group? I am sorry to say that I am not. I read this Blog on the good Senator and his family and thought
"How could anyone that is associated with writing such terrible things be a true Mason in any way, shape or form." I then read a transcript of a man claiming to be a Mason on a Radio Station trying to hurt a Governor who just happens to be a true Mason. To Brethren or those seeking Masonic Light I ask that you read these posts and judge for yourself if this group is true Masonry or are they just a few people who are out to stir things up, lie and try to make a name for themselves? How could anyone base their being a Mason on this type of foundation? The people they have unsuccessfully tried to "out" being good men have broad shoulders and cannot be hurt with such lies but it is still a shame. The UGLA/GOUSA group can never expect to considered Real and True Masons when they have stooped to this low level in order to increase membership. Please before anyone joins such a group be it GOUSA or any Fake/Bogus Masonic group check it's authenticity, ask them when they were founded, if they are part of Regular (Grand Lodge of that State & Most Worshipful Prince Hall of that State) Freemasonry? Call one of these two Grand Lodges in your state and visit them if you can. One of the biggest clues to men on the INternet not being true and honest Masons is the fact that they do not sign their names & Lodge Affiliations to their posts. This would allow the reader to do a web search of their name and their organization. Masonry begins in a man's heart. Does anyone think that this group of people behind these Blogs can possibly truly be a Mason?
Sincerely & Respectfully,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804,
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California
skip
ReplyDeleteskip
skip
skip
skip
skip
is that a record skipping?
nope,just manny beating a dead horse.
Johnny Nobody
Electra Lodge 666
GL o Ca.
Manny,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that all those who you think are GO USA are truly members. For example, I know of no member attacking senators or governors, especially on the radio. I could be wrong as we don't police the web but in a small community such as ours, I probably would have heard about it.
S&F
Brian Roper
Sirius Lodge #7
Grand Orient USA
Dear Brian,
ReplyDeletePerhaps you have not read the blogs connected to this one. Are you denying that they are GOUSA/GLUSA related, including the recent piece on Justin Timberlake?
http://burningtaper.blogspot.com/2006/10/ugla-mason-david-cooksey-interviewed.html
The same garbage can be found posted by the same fols about Sen. Trent Lott and so many others. Denying these blogs are connected with your group further verifies what kind of people are it's members. Mr. Roper, each peron has to life with themselves in life. If GOUSA refuses responsibilty or denies it they just further distance themselves from ever being taken serious. Good luck to you.
In regards to T.Ron Dunce:
T. Ron Dunce said...
skip
Johnny Nobody
Electra Lodge 666
GL o Ca.
Again this is the kind of response we have grown to expect from you guys. If you have something to say you should stand behind it by posting a real name and MAsonic Affiliation. There is no good reason or excuse why a person would hide when they post, especially when attacking another. The Blogs and posts put up by the members of these fake wannabe Masons group lack substance.
Sincerely & Respectfully,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804,
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California
yawn
ReplyDeletethat damn record is skipping again
david cookesy belongs to an independant lodge, he is not associated with the GOUSA
so now what truth?
Illustrious Johnny Nobody
Electra Lodge 666
GL o Ca
Hey Manny? Can we give this a rest now, bro?
ReplyDeleteThe GO-USA is a done deal. They aren't "fake" Masons, they simply belong to an organization that ours does not recognize. Most of the members worked hard to get themselves organized in order to get their patent and their amity with several other LDH bodies. The GOdF thought highly enough of them, so I have to believe that they are good men who are working toward the ideals of friendship, morality, and brotherly love.
Give them a chance to show us their good works, of which I'm sure they are capable. Sniping at each other looks bad for everybody.
Sheesh, Bro. Manny. You ARE beating a dead horse.
ReplyDeleteFor the record:
1) The Trent Lott article was not a hit piece. I simply posted about a story about him that was making the rounds at the time, and reported on his Masonic affiliations.
2) Ditto with the Justin Timberlake piece. I simply questioned the Shrine's choice in using him as a celebrity spokesmodel.
3) Bro. David Cooksey is not affiilate with GOUSA or a GOUSA lodge. He resigned from its predecessor, GLofUSA more than a year ago.
4) I have the utmost respect for Bro. Brian Roper, and see no reason why you've taken to slamming him. It's highly noticeable that you're calling him Mr. Roper instead of Bro. Roper as a way of saying you deny him your respect as a fellow Freemason.
And most importantly 5) I am the sole publisher and editor of The Burning Taper, and I alone make the decision of what is or is not published. I am not a member of a GOUSA lodge; I remain a card-carrying member of a regular Georgia lodge, established in 1857, working under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Georgia.
I am a brother and friend to the members of my "regular" lodge as well as to members of lodges associated with, and officers of, the new Grand Orient of the United States of America (GOUSA). I do not accept anyone's mandate of who I can or cannot associate with or show support for. I make no apologies for my words or actions.
I have associated with, communicated with, and call friend and brother Masons from many jurisdictions, organizations (including GOUSA, UGLE, the Scottish Rite, the Shrine and even ROJ) and from many countries. I accept them as Masons, no matter what you and/or the Grand Lodge of Georgia say or think.
When I disagree with the Masonic actions or words of any of these Masonic brothers and sisters or with the leaders of their various organizations, I'm apt to speak up about it. That's what this blog is for.
I even accept you as a brother, as I did our late friend Bro. Theron Dunn, whom you seem to imitate with your caustic postings more and more each time you visit The Taper. I notice you're trotting out his favorite old bugaboo, saying blog commenters who don't post their real names can't be trusted.
That I often post positive articles about or by GOUSA is true. Why? Because I know these people, think highly of them, and find most of what they have to say to be of Masonic interest. Several times I've offered to post Masonic news from other jurisdictions here on The Taper, but other than a few notices about fishfrys, very few "regular" Masons have sent me anything of true Masonic interest to publish or write about. The offer remains open. What are you and your lodge and grand lodge doing that is newsworthy?
— W.S.
Bro Tom,
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Bro Manny,
I'm sorry you feel so negative toward the GO USA that you would attack me without ever even meeting or conversing with me.
S&F
Brian Roper
I am trying really hard to take the high road since I had to watch my Mother lose her 6 year battle with cancer and pass out of this life at 11:30 am CST this passed Monday.
ReplyDeleteDON'T PUSH IT. LEAVE ME ALONE AND LET ME BE.
Bro. Cooksey,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear of the passing of your mother. I send you my condolences.
— W.S.
ditto bro david,
ReplyDeletemy condolences
To Mr. Dunce: Once again I ask how can a post be taken as serious when a person hides behind a screen name? One can write anything he likes but he has no when he cowardly will not stand behind his convictions. W.S.
ReplyDeleteTo Bro. Tom, with all due respect my Brother I respond to the garbage written by the members of this group and it's supporters because write they write about Mainstream Masonry and good Brethren are simply not true. We do not always agree Brother Tom but I always value your opinion and thoughts on things Masonic. I share mine. I do not believe this group or it's members to be Masonic in any way, shape or form. Sorry we disagree. I recently saw Howard Roark's posts regarding Mainstream Masonry. Should Masons just disregard his fabrications and not respond? My Brother, they own the Blogs. They can post the opinions of those who disagree with them or not. They are not Recognized by Mainstream Masonry nor is the Grand Lodge they claim to be affilliated with. Why should Masons simply close their eyes to the truth?
To W.S:
The truth is the truth W.S. no matter how it is twisted. The "Trent Lott" & Justin Timberlake" articles were posted by you in order to make a point.
I will not respond to your comment regarding Mr. Cooksley. he has enough on his plate and no need to cause him grief. I wish him and his family the best.
I do not recognize the UGLA/GOUSA/ as Masonic and as such why would I be a hypocrite and call it's members "Brother." I have had many (not one or two) horrible experiences with their members and read many of their posts condemning Mainstream Masonry with their lies and exaggerations. You are correct that you control what goes on your blogs.
If you believe so strongly in this group then why not 1. join them,
2. sign your name and stand behind what you write or allow written on your blog? I never will understand this type of action. It is my opinion. Thank you for allowing me to share it. Thank you also for accepting me as a Brother? While I disagree with the group and it's members/support group you did bring a smile to my face. it is always good to smile. :-)
Bro. Dunn was an awesome person and Mason. I do not mimich his thoughts but agree with him. How can a person be taken seriously when they fail to stand behind their posts with a name? Bro. Theron was very supportive of this group and it's founder at one time.
All the responses as to why a person does not sign their name to a post just doesn't work and to me are just excuses. If I were as unhappy with an organization as you appear to be with your Regular Grand Lodge I wouls surely Demit and join a group that shares your opinion of what Masonry is and should be.
Your offer is very kind but in truth there is nothing that M.S. Masonry can or will do that will be considered "newsworthy" to you or your group. Freemasonry in any state/city can be found doing worthwhile endeavors. You attack the Shrine yet you know of the goos they do not only in their hospitals but in the many clinics they put on. Their is Child I.D programs, Scholarships, Masonic Homes and so many other newsworthy things going on in Masonry. Masons do not to brag about these things. We just do them. I think you know better and once again you are trying to bait. I have written too much as it is and will end with a "thank you" for allowing me to post here.
Sincerely & Respectfully,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804,
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California
masontruth@aol.com
Dear Brian,
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with what your group has done in the the Masonic community such as the takeover of Halcyon Lodge,constant attacks on Mainstream Masonry and good man who simply do not believe as your members do. Masonry is bigger then what I think or you think. Anyone who has ever disagreed with what your founder or it's members consider Masonry has always been met with the same attacks. While he has taken a back seat at this time he staill is pulling the strings. You as an individual have been very kind and I appreciate it. The group from it's beginning has never been straight in the manner it has gone about getting members or many of the claims it has made. Not long ago there was even a Masonic video being used on your Arizona site that was taken from a Mainstream Grand Lodge and certainly wasn't made for use by GOUSA. Brian, is this not true. It was taken down but to use it was deceptive and just not right. These are the kind of things that reak of J.P. and the way he has influenced others. it. Thank you.
Sincerely & Respectfully,
Manny Blanco,PM
Moreno Valley Masonic Lodge # 804,
Moreno Valley, CA
Grand Lodge of California
masontruth@aol.com
This comment has been moved here from another thread.
ReplyDeleteComments that refer to others with "names" like asshole, etc., should only be posted here. They will be deleted from other threads.
— W.S.
+ + +
Howard Roark has left a new comment on your post "The 'Three Stooges Degree': Pickens Star Lodge No....":
Vitruvius,
Out of respect for your sincere and brotherly post I will honor you with a sincere and honest reply.
In order to understand the present situation you must begin by asking the right questions. The answers to these questions may be difficult to swallow, but once you understand everything will become quite clear to you.
Why would Masons want to leave the Anglo-American system (i.e. Halcyon)?
Why would there be so much animosity towards the Anglo-American system by these brothers?
I was an Anglo-American Mason for twenty years. In that time I witnessed some of the worst behavior among men that I have ever come across. My present attitude is the direct result of my experiences while I was an Anglo-American Mason. Don’t be fooled by all the lies about me. I was a loyal brother that traveled to many lodges giving talks on Freemasonry and how to stop the membership decline. I served on multiple committees and traveled around the state with the Grand Master to the District meetings. I worked very hard to try and save the fraternity. As a result of my labors I was stabbed in the back multiple times by some of the people posting to this blog. If backstabbing is being a good brother and Mason, then I want nothing to do with Anglo-American Freemasonry, and feel I have every right to point-out to the general public what to expect from it.
Anglo-American Masonry is its own worst enemy. It creates animosity through lies and deceit. If you can’t trust a man who has sworn before God to defend you, then who can you trust?
Ed King had no problem cheating, wronging and defrauding me and many other brothers while we were still Anglo-American Masons. You guys allow him to continue. Don’t give me any of the tired old BS that there is nothing you can do. The Grand Lodge of Florida silenced Bro. Tim Bryce for telling the truth. I’m sure the Grand Lodge of Maine can silence Ed King for telling lies about other Masons.
You will earn my respect when you begin taking responsibility for the actions of your organization and your brothers. Practice what you preach and then you can enjoy the benefits of trust and loyalty.
Arthur Peterson is a good example of the type of men I encountered in Anglo-American Freemasonry. He lies and puts words in your mouth. He tells you what to believe. If he was in a bar I would punch him square in the face and never think twice about it. There are so many loud-mouthed assholes like him that you eventually just shut them up and go on about your business.
When I visited Halcyon for the first time I knew that I had found real Free-Masonry and true brotherhood. They had zero tolerance for liars, backstabbers, and loud mouthed assholes. They had no problem kicking men like this out the front door of their lodge and making it clear that they were unwelcome to return.
This is the main issue with the West Gate. Every time you let a man join your lodge, you jeopardize the brotherhood. It is a VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. An “Arthur Peterson” can destroy a whole lodge in a short period of time.
Then you have brothers who never question anything and always believe what they’re told. Manny Blanco is a good example of this type of brother. He’s got a heart of gold and always believes in the good, but he fails to see when evil enters the West Gate. He assumes that these men can be reformed by the teachings of Free-Masonry. They can’t. They can and will destroy the fraternity. They are why your membership keeps dropping. No one wants to sit in lodge with them. Now these people have risen to the highest levels of your organization because no one had the balls to stand-up to them.
Palmetto Bug talks about drawing a line in the sand. He’s right! Masonry has to draw a line in the sand and remove the evil that has passed the West Gate. It has to restore trust and loyalty among the brethren. Not a blind trust that never questions anything, but a trust based on truth and fact.
The GOUSA is doing what needed to be done long ago. We’re separating the wheat from the chaff, and restoring trust and honor to American Freemasonry. The West Gate is now a major obstacle. If you want to be a GOUSA Mason you will either rise to meet our standards, or you will be sent away. Many will say that this is elitist, when in fact it is necessary for the survival of true brotherhood. Like I said earlier: “Every time you let a man join your lodge, you jeopardize the brotherhood.”
Vitruvius, please give me one reason why I should accept any Anglo-American Mason as my brother who cannot prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that he is a true brother. Oaths and Obligations are meaningless. Way too many lie at the altar. Give me a reason to believe.
— Howard Roarke
"The way to know if a man is telling the truth is to watch how the howling mob reacts to his statements. If they crucify him you can bet your life on the fact he was honest. If the crowd applauds him then he lied to win their favor." - attributed to Mark Twain
ReplyDeleteDear Bro. Manny, et al.,
ReplyDeleteThere is a rare time that I ever get involved in these types of discussions because they are always a vast waste of my time. That being said, I take great offense by the tone and subjective nature of many of the messages. You have never spoken with me and do not know my heart, but you have now condemned my actions as a founding member of the GOUSA. That being said I wish to address your post:
"the takeover of Halcyon Lodge"
They left of their own accord; there was no coercive tactic here. It was their choice to contact us, not the other way around.
"Not long ago there was even a Masonic video being used on your Arizona site that was taken from a Mainstream Grand Lodge"
Yes, there was, but I asked them to remove it when I saw it. We do not all march in lock-step and sometimes decisions are made by individuals that are not necessarily the right ones. Jeff Peace, nor the GOUSA, told them to post the video; it is called an honest error and was corrected in a short amount of time.
Now that I have addressed your post, I will introduce myself. My name is Aaron Peavy. I am one of the founding members (there is no single founding member) and the Immediate Past Grand Master of the GOUSA. It is funny when I read these silly conspiracy theories about Jeff P. because, if anybody is pulling strings, it would be me. Yet, somehow, you all keep pointing at Jeff. He reacts in a negative way because of the accusations that keep being leveled against him. I am the true puppeteer, if there ever was one, and you guys are so fooled that you are blaming the wrong person. Do you really think that the person who is running the show would be nearly as vocal as Jeff? Yet, somehow you all are duped, probably by Ed King, into believing that he is responsible. So, for future reference, I am the great devil that you should hate because I am the one bringing a new wave of Masonry to America.
That being said, I hold no personal animosity to any of our Brothers on the other side of the moon and hope to build some bridges in the future, but the back-and-forth fighting has to come to an end. The only way for that to happen is for the personal attacks on Jeff to stop. I am an open target that gladly accepts it, but it seems that most of these types of attacks seek a victim that will react, which is usually not me. This spells malevolent intent to me and not an honest inquiry into the truth. If anyone was really seeking the truth, there are ways of obtaining it without using public soapboxes and pedantic dialogues. Let us all drop these farcical charades and open an honest dialogue if there is an honest level of truth and respect to be found. Otherwise, everyone should stop posting before they all look like the fools. This means both sides.
Frat.,
Aaron Peavy
IPGM
GOUSA
FUNNY my Mother was even one of his victims but yet I was told to shut up........why was that?
ReplyDelete"Bro. David Cooksey is not affiilate with GOUSA or a GOUSA lodge. He resigned from its predecessor, GLofUSA more than a year ago."
ReplyDeleteLet be make this crystal clear;
I have had no part in the forming of the GOUSA, I am not nor have been a part of GOUSA or a member. Nor do I now nor will I have any future connection with the GOUSA.
I demitted from MSM.
I resigned as GS of the UGLA.
I am an INDEPENDENT MASON AND SHALL REMAIN as such ONE PERIOD.
I love you too Jeffrey!
ReplyDeleteJacksonville, NC is a small enough place my friend. I'd be happy to provide you with the name of my prefered bar if you'd like. This way you could, for a change, put action behind your words.
Arthur,
ReplyDeleteI always backup my words. The Grand Lodge of Georgia doubted my resolve and lost. Everyone doubted the GOUSA was real but they found out differently. When I said their was corruption in the GL's no one listened. Now they get to read about embezzlement and prostitution in the newspapers.
Yep, one by one everything I have said is coming to pass.
Now, what is the name of that bar. ;-)
Friday nights are my only night out for drinking. You can find me at either Crazy Jerry's, Gus's Warehouse, or a small dive known simply as "The Tavern".
ReplyDeleteSee ya soon!
Well does this mean that the weekly Star Bucks meetings are no more? I was gonna put a cream pie in JP's face as an act of loving discordianism...let us not take ourselves way to freaking seriously people. What is a very serious topic is the state of our nation and masonry. My grandfather 33rd degree God rest his soul resigned or just stopped going in his older years...don't know if it was the orgies or the general JP beefs that caused his disinterest in his old age....but I can conclude that the organization that he belonged and respected did warrant him never talking about it even when asked. My grandmother decided to forgo a masonic funeral for a military one, however both graves have eastern star and compasses on them....nobody in my family paid for that tombstone which leads me to believe that the fraternity took up the slack as my elders fought over money that wasn't there. Theron gave me excellent advice on the state of modern freemasonry, (RIP). He took the time to explain to me the options available to me, as I grew up four blocks away from the Sandy Springs Lodge where all this schism business began. My research is extensive and I have come to believe that the American lodges are at risk of being assimilated into a global masonic system. The Southern Jurisdiction uses the noble lie of racism to justify holding out against those who would love to see America destroyed. The reality is that our society is in dire need of our brothers to step up and into the open. I do not recall the exact quote but during the signing of the Constitution it was stated by the founding fathers that it was too soon to openly state the fact that this nation was being founded on the level and that one day that fact would be brought into the light. That day has come, the brothers behind the curtains need to now step up. Perhaps a political party would be the ticket? And no this would not violate the bylaws anymore than the protestant anglo angle already does. For the record the out of all the CEO's and Lawyers, and Doctors, is this the best we can do? These jockers running for Prez have made a complete debacle of our system. Why not have Cynthia and Bob Barr join in the debate? This alone would bring forth issues that need addressed asap. Forget about an anti-masonic party, how about a nationalist masonic party for isolationism and the rebuilding of our manufacturing and labor. Thank you WS for having the wisdom and courage to endorse Ron Paul. The time is ripe, not for a Alex Jones Constitutional rewrite, but for a true open movement calling for common sense and an end to secret handshake cruise vacation political pandering. Be heroes, not just charitable shadow warriors. Let us please preserve this nation and make that the priority of these movements and changes. JP could not have been acting alone without advice from abroad. These schisms will happen and history shows that they can hold influence. It is a smart plan of action as the only way to really combat an age old fraternity is to start your own which generations later can start to make an impact.....let us turn our pissing contest into positive action and debate....dummies wasting breath help no one...shame on the mudslingers who dodge productive thoughts with words of self defense.
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT my account so please post your responses here..I will always check for them.
My typos are a result of late night beer drinking....not just stupifato....awaiting evil non productive critical statements about my favorite flavor of koolaid.....it's Marinol as my surgery recovery has me drugged and not spelling to spec....My 4th grade teacher was right about cheating on those spelling tests coming back to haunt me. Carbs Cash and Ass..the three essentials....has Operaton Mindfuck begun yet?
ReplyDeletePS Why does the Federal Government let my doctors hand out hardcore opiates like candy but I gotta pull teeth to get a drug who's worst side effects are fainting and possible narcoleptic fits?
Let us all drop these farcical charades and open an honest dialogue if there is an honest level of truth and respect to be found. Otherwise, everyone should stop posting before they all look like the fools. This means both sides.
ReplyDeleteFrat.,
Aaron Peavy
IPGM
GOUSA
"Not long ago there was even a Masonic video being used on your Arizona site that was taken from a Mainstream Grand Lodge"
Yes, there was, but I asked them to remove it when I saw it. We do not all march in lock-step and sometimes decisions are made by individuals that are not necessarily the right ones. Jeff Peace, nor the GOUSA, told them to post the video; it is called an honest error and was corrected in a short amount of time.
Now that I have addressed your post, I will introduce myself. My name is Aaron Peavy. I am one of the founding members (there is no single founding member) and the Immediate Past Grand Master of the GOUSA. It is funny when I read these silly conspiracy theories about Jeff P. because, if anybody is pulling strings, it would be me. Yet, somehow, you all keep pointing at Jeff. He reacts in a negative way because of the accusations that keep being leveled against him. I am the true puppeteer, if there ever was one, and you guys are so fooled that you are blaming the wrong person. Do you really think that the person who is running the show would be nearly as vocal as Jeff? Yet, somehow you all are duped, probably by Ed King, into believing that he is responsible. So, for future reference, I am the great devil that you should hate because I am the one bringing a new wave of Masonry to America.
That being said, I hold no personal animosity to any of our Brothers on the other side of the moon and hope to build some bridges in the future, but the back-and-forth fighting has to come to an end. The only way for that to happen is for the personal attacks on Jeff to stop. I am an open target that gladly accepts it, but it seems that most of these types of attacks seek a victim that will react, which is usually not me. This spells malevolent intent to me and not an honest inquiry into the truth. If anyone was really seeking the truth, there are ways of obtaining it without using public soapboxes and pedantic dialogues. Let us all drop these farcical charades and open an honest dialogue if there is an honest level of truth and respect to be found. Otherwise, everyone should stop posting before they all look like the fools. This means both sides.
Frat.,
Aaron Peavy
IPGM
GOUSA
Bro. Peavy,
I respect your thoughts but certainly have a very different view of things. All of Masonry has seen what has gone on with what today is called GOUSA. Would I be wrong to say that those who started it had started other groups and eventually it has become GOUSA? You being a founding member of the group know the routes taken by your group and many of it's members.Bro. Peavy, this is no justification of the manner in which Jeff/Howard acts nor would I ever consider these type of people to be Masons. My opinion and to me the proof is in each and every one of their posts. No one attacked Jeff/Howard first and the same applies to any of the group. Their posts can be found everywhere on the net attacking Masons and Freemasonry. While your post might come from your heart you are wrong. The "Take over of Halcyon Lodge" was not a decision made by all it's members. The letter from the then Worshipful Master was never sent to all the Brethren with at least a 30 day notice to make this decision. The members were never given due and timely notice and it appears that much of what was done was well planned in advance. After the fact just doesn't cut it in Masonry or any group that would have such drastic changes. You can't justify this or the changing of the charities in advance, and that list can go on. In time the courts will make things right. Things don't just happen and only you and the corp pf people involved know the depth. A small group of Brother reaching out to Jeff does not constitute an entire Lodge. You know that nor was what was done Masonic.
The Masonic Video. Yes it was taken down. There would have been no other choice. It was deceptive be a mistake or not. Can you tell me that people seeing that video would not have contacted you thinking they were joining an entirely different avenue of Masonry?
My pleasure to meet you. I certainly know who you are.. :-)
Aaron, You can write, post, tell, say anything you like but the history of your group tells us who called the shots then, calls the shots now and most likely will call the shots and pull the strings in the future.
Bro. Ed King: His dedication to Masonry is beyond reproach. Bro. Ed is not the issue here nor was he ever. He is used as a scape goat by some of the members and sympathizers of your group.
Bro. Peavy, your point that "I am the great devil that you should hate because I am the one bringing a new wave of Masonry to America" says alot in itself. Masonry is a whole, a way of life and those that share it with others are part of a much bigger picture. Can you see why many Masons have attitudes with the group and it's funders? It is very elitist to write such a thing. My Brother, with the deepest respect you are welcome to your "new wave of Masonry." I am simply not interested. Masonry has been working in the hearts of man for hundreds of years and will continue to do so. Those that choose to follow you will either find what they are looking for or not. I wish them all well.
I do feel that Masonry is more then just being an intellectual or have a dues card for that matter. It has to come from the heart. That being said I prefer Mainstream Masonry. It works for me and millions of others.
If Jeff and Howard are one and the same it all makes sense to me. I won't go into detail and their posts paint the entire picture.
I have never viewed a Grand Master of a Masinstream Grand Lodge as a "puller of strings" or a Puppeteer. Your post brings much to a person to think about. I have met a number of Grand Masters, each and every one of them a true leader of men, humble yet able to serve Masonry. Bro. Aaron, you do miss the point and I think that it is something that takes away from GOUSA and it's members. Grand Masters and his Officers are there to lead but at the same time serve it's members. It is not the other way around.
Quite possibly Bro. Aaron you need to clean your own house (Group) before you suggest the same to others. Howard/Jeff and those like him are filled with hatred and post accordingly. All the "talks" and "articles" in the world will not take away from the fact thet the moment someone disagrees with them they are attacked. I don't have to tell you these things Bro. Peavy, we all know our own better then others. The many screen names, the anonymous posting, are just some of the many things I will never understand about this man and the group, the approach in general from day one has been terrible. Are you asking Masons to not to defend the good name of Masonry against unfounded, unwarranted and exagerated attacks posted by members and suuporters of your group? I do appreciate your honesty in signing a name to your post. I am sure that we can go on forever disagreeing and probably agreeing on some issues and it has been a good experience.. Thanks and I wish everyone a great weekend..
My goodness, even I got tired of writing this long reply.. :-)
Sorry Brethren and readers.
S & F,
"No one attacked Jeff/Howard first and the same applies to any of the group." - Manny Blanco
ReplyDeleteManny is lying. Ed King started the attacks.