The Knights of Freemasonry Universal, a group of regular Freemasons from around the world dedicated to peace, universality, and "'true' Masonic tolerance," announced earlier this week their international awards for outstanding Masons of 2007.Past Grand Master of West Virginia M.W. Bro. Frank Haas, who was expelled late last year by the current Grand Master, was among the recipients.
Our brothers at Halcyon Lodge in Cleveland, Ohio were honored with a group award for "putting the 'free' back into Freemasonry."
The Knights of Freemasonry Universal's news release follows:
INTERNATIONAL AWARDS ANNOUNCEDMasons | Masonic Awards | Knights of Freemasonry Universal | Freemasonry | Halcyon Lodge | Burning Taper | BurningTaper.com
Alexandria, VA. February 9, 2008: Today the Knights of Freemasonry Universal announced the following recognition awards for outstanding Masons of 2007.
In keeping with the organization's mission to promote, educate, and research Universality in Freemasonry, those here recognized have taken courageous steps to promote brotherhood and understanding within the Masonic Fraternity. Each will hold the Title of Knight Zuri, the word Zuri being Swahili for good and beautiful.
The new honorees are:Our group award goes to:
- Brother Jeff Ballou, of Washington D.C. (USA), for his tireless efforts in bringing the Afro-American and Caucasian Grand Lodges together in D.C.
- Brother Jack Buta of Arizona (USA), for his research into the Politics of Masonic Foreign Relations. [Link]
- Brother Frank Haas, PGM, West Virginia (USA), for his efforts in bringing enlightenment to the craft.
- Brother Carlos Quintanilla Yerena, PGM, of Mexico City (Mexico), for his efforts to reunite Mexican Masonry.
As Always: to the Unknown Builder, whose diligence + devotion is masked by the soundless tools of the craft. We are eternally grateful.
- Halcyon Lodge of Ohio (USA), for putting the "free" back into Freemasonry. [Link]
And last, but far from least, the great families and friends, without whose support, these Masons could not stand.
-33-
The Knights Of Freemasonry Universal is an independent Order not affiliated with any Masonic Grand Lodge, body or jurisdiction, and the opinions expressed here are solely those of the organization's Directors.
Universal Freemasonry?
ReplyDeleteInteresting Ideal!
Intellectually Stimulating at the least.
Congratulations to Brother Frank, Haas, the Brothers of Halcyon lodge, and all of the brothers honored as outstanding Masons.
ReplyDeleteI'd never heard of the Knights of Freemasonry Universal before reading this post, but am glad to know of them now. Kudos to them for giving these Brothers the public commendation that they deserve.
I particularly appreciate that the Knights are working in positive terms--shining the light on what they admire, instead of condemning what they don't like.
Agree entirely, Sis. It'd be great to see that on this blog sometime. It'd be great if Halcyon showed they were 'outstanding Masons', but here is what we've heard from some their representatives:
ReplyDeleteHoward Roarke (aka JP):
"I honestly enjoy poking a stick at you. lol I have zero respect for men such as yourself."
I can't see how this falls under the concept proposed of; "True" Masonic Tolerance."
I respect some of the brothers out of the GOUSA such as Brother Brandt from Euclid(posting as John Galt). I'd consider Brother Brandt as an 'outstanding' Mason as far as I can see. He is not in Halcyon lodge. I need to see the details involving Halcyon and BOTH sides of the discussion from those involved before I could agree to a judgment that they deserve a reward. There is to as much information as I have been given so far still a question of financial impropriety from its members in attempting to wrest the property from its rightful owners. Of course, if more information is provided, we will see. The same with this KOFU group.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFrancois lives in a world of double-standards like most mainstream Freemasons.
ReplyDeleteHe moans, gripes and protests about how I treat him here. Then in the next breath he openly criticizes others.
Grow up punk! If you can dish it out then you better be able to take it.
You and poor little Stoic need to get some stones and quit crying and whimpering around so much.
Boy- I'd sure hate to see a post on this blog about a group of Masons who were rewarded for great accomplishments in Masonry destroyed by masons who can't get along.
ReplyDeleteThis post is not the time or place to do it so I politely ask you to refrain from continuing to squabble on it out of respect to the Widow's Son and the honorees.
S&F
Cory
Brethren,
ReplyDeleteIf I may add, I am a little shocked that anyone would use this wonderful thread as a forum to air their personal problems with Halcyon Lodge. I am not a member of Halcyon but I am friends with several members.
I have heard a lot of talk about Halcyon but none from those that are actually informed about the situation in Cleveland. Please, stay off of this topic unless one is truly informed about the situation.
On the real topic. Congratulations to the recipients of the high honor conferred by KOFU. Continue your work Brethren and attend to your duties. I expect that all of the recipients will continue to behave and work in such a manner as to bring greater honor to the award granted.
Frat:.
Brandt
howard roarke
ReplyDelete"He moans, gripes and protests about how I treat him here. Then in the next breath he openly criticizes others."
First of all, you are dead wrong about my complaint of how you treat me. I do not care at all how you treat me. The quote was from the way you treated someone else on the board. Just using it as an illustration of how some GOUSA members are 'shining the light'. Thanks for showing a bit more of how you 'shine the light' Howard.
Thanks for the 'punk' comment though. Oy! Gabba Gabba hey!
Secondly, you are dead wrong about me openly criticizing others. I only openly asked for facts of a case I have heard nothing solid about. I am withholding judgment about the Halcyon issue as much as possible. I would certainly like to think otherwise, but nobody has presented useful information.
Likewise, Corey, I am asking for truthful information here. It should not 'destroy' anything to withhold judgment until all the facts are in. If you have some facts, please present them. That's all. I have heard little about this issue anywhere aside from a well-considered post from Tom Accousti (apologies if I spelled that wrong Tom). Unfortunately, Tom's post did little to provide information.
BOTH of you can take it as criticism if you wish. It is not. It is a request for information.
corey wrote:
"Boy- I'd sure hate to see a post on this blog about a group of Masons who were rewarded for great accomplishments in Masonry destroyed by masons who can't get along."
Perhaps you should check out the thread about the brother being made Master of his lodge in NC.
John Galt wrote:
ReplyDelete"I have heard a lot of talk about Halcyon but none from those that are actually informed about the situation in Cleveland. Please, stay off of this topic unless one is truly informed about the situation."
Brother,
This what the inquiry is. I wish for information. Anything else is just speculation on the details. If you can provide some light on the matter, please do. Perhaps this request comes with some heretical tendencies. Perhaps my wording was harsh, but the spirit is the same.
I am more than willing to accept that your questions and questioning comes from a good place. Please excuse me as I am not able to share any information about Halcyon. I am not fully informed about them and I would not want to give wrong information. That being the case it is not my place to speak of the situation.
ReplyDeleteHave you contacted the lodge itself?
Brandt
Francois,
ReplyDeleteI’m going to use your logic. Since I think you and Stoic are pompous asses and because you are both mainstream Masons then it follows that all mainstream Masons probably are asses as well.
After all, that is the brilliant logic you used regarding Halcyon and the Grand Orient. You think I’m an ass so (using Francois’ logic) all Halcyon and Grand Orient Masons are asses.
Hmmmm?
Many of my friends are mainstream Masons and they are NOT asses. I have other friends that are Grand Orient Masons and they are NOT asses either. It seems that there must be a problem with your logic.
Perhaps you’re an ass and wrongly assume that everyone is like you.
Also, isn’t it a case of the pot calling the kettle black when you question Halcyon’s actions? Mainstream freemasonry is plagued with fraud and corruption. I just heard that a mainstream Past Grand Master got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. This is not to mention the Bingo scams, prostitutes, using monies collected for charity for booze and golf, etc. (Just you Google and read about for yourself.)
Here are some Halcyon facts for you:
1. The old guys let the building fall into disrepair and water was running down the walls when it rained. The filters in the blower motor for the heating system hadn’t been changed since the 70’s according to HVAC repair company. The blower itself hadn’t worked in years and allowed humidity to build-up in the building.
2. The old guys cut the pipes out of one of the pipe organs and sold them for scrap to pay for Knight Templar junk.
3. The old guys wanted to sell the building and allow it to become a parking lot. They were working with a real estate agent.
4. The young guys brought an end to all the destruction and began the restoration of the building. They have spent untold amounts of time fixing plaster, painting, scrubbing floors, and repairing doors, faucets, toilets, and the kitchen.
Halcyon would be a parking lot today if not for the young Masons. No one would be arguing over anything because there would be nothing to fight about. The young brothers cared enough to save it from destruction and idiots like you pray that it will be turned back over to the very people who want to destroy it.
[Apologies to All for Not Commenting on the Topic at Hand]
ReplyDeleteHoward Roark,
Please take a pill please or have a deep drink...
There is simply no reason to lash out at others with abusive language when they disagree with you. You aren't a very good representative of your vision of Freemasonry.
Again, when brothers disagree with you on arcane points of philosophy regarding long departed philosophers, there really is no reason to accuse them of being "pompous asses." The only one acting like a "pompous ass" here is you.
Brother, we have never exchanged more than a few words or sentences on another forum regarding the "Spinoza versus Leibniz debate" nor have I ever really posted any comments on the Internet elsewhere for you or anyone else to form any informed opinion about me, my beliefs, or my opinions on any topic, whether masonic, esoteric, political, religious, philosophical or otherwise.
I don't know who Bro. Francois is and we don't correspond about any of these issues in the backchannels. However, he apparently has his own opinions about your conduct and his own opinions about Spinoza and Voltaire. I respect those opinions. He has called you out regarding your boorish conduct. I agree with him.
Brother, I respect your right to voice your opinions. What I don't respect are your perpetual ad hominem attacks in debates or discussions. Didn't your mom tell you to be nice in Kindergarten? These lessons still apply, especially among those claiming to practice freemasonry.
And, I don't need to gather a pile of stones to throw at you based upon your suggestion above since you whack yourself quite well using your own small stones--you don't need my assistance. Peace be with you.
Stoic,
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest here. I have copies of posts you made to the Scottish Rite forum and The Three Pillars that are nothing other than 'ad hominem' attacks against me and others. You delight in the unjust suffering of others when it suits your own political agenda within the Scottish Rite - Southern Jurisdiction.
Don't come on here playing self-righteous because I am more than willing to call your cards on it.
Back when you first became a Mason and were researching Albert Pike and the Scottish Rite who did you contact? It was me! You wanted a list of the books and materials I used in my research. You wanted to be the expert in Louisiana. At that time you acted like the perfect Mason. But, as soon as being my brother no longer suited your political agenda you had no problem attacking me openly.
I can't help but laugh at what a little man you truly have become. Your arrogance and conceit has surpassed anything I could ever have imagined.
Now you support the efforts of a bunch of white collar criminals that are raping the fraternity from within. Your the greatest Masons opportunist of the 21st century. You should take some pride in how clever and diabolical you have been . Not many men could sell their soul as cheaply as you did yours.
If that really happened to the pipe organ that is a shame. They may have done anywhere from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. All for what can not have ammounted to more than a couple of thousand dollars.
ReplyDeleteFor all Brothers who have pipe organs in your lodge, they are most likely the most valuable single items there. The very small Austin Chorophone from 1929 in my lodge has a replacement value around $100,000. The big Skinner in the Detroit Masonic Temple is worth closer to $2,000,000.
Be carefull what you do unless you simply don't care or are willing to fork over six figures to undo the damage for those who inherit the lodge from you.
Quote by Howard Roark:
ReplyDelete[snip]Back when you first became a Mason and were researching Albert Pike and the Scottish Rite who did you contact? It was me! You wanted a list of the books and materials I used in my research. You wanted to be the expert in Louisiana. At that time you acted like the perfect Mason. But, as soon as being my brother no longer suited your political agenda you had no problem attacking me openly.[unsnip]
I know that you are unbalanced, but, now you are resorting to defamation and outright lies. JP, when did I become a mason? You even know?
You have me confused with someone else from Louisiana or you feel comfortable lying. I have never sought any information from you or attacked you. Brother, you're the one who is delusional!
Stop defaming me or back up your assertions with specific emails, PM's, or links to public posts by me! There aren't any involving you otherwise you quote them.
If I want to read anything at all about Scottish Rite History, New Orleans, and/or Albert Pike I can ask a real expert, our local authority on the topic who has published in the Heredom. On the other hand, I can search our own archives, read the Heredom back issues, review the published SR histories, read the numerous Albert Pike biographies, and/or ask the SR's official archivist who I have met in person. I don't claim to be an expert on the Scottish Rite. I'm just a dedicated and proud member.
Go jump in a lake!
Oh, and, I am through arguing with fools.
ReplyDeleteMarc,
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised that you should want to disavow having spoken with me about Pike and the Scottish Rite. It obviously no longer fits your political agenda. Completely understandable. It is, however, none-the-less a fact. Apparently, your local expert didn't have what you were looking for at the time.
If called upon to do so I will be happy to pull up my archived emails from you in court. I archive all emails to CD once a year.
I'm sure it makes you feel uncomfortable to be called out in a pubic forum, but when you weave a twisted web these things eventually come back to you.
Also, I might add that by referring to me as "unbalanced" and "delusional" you have vividly illustrated that you are not above 'ad hominem' attacks on others.
ReplyDeleteAs I stated earlier, many (not all) mainstream Masons live in a world of double-standards. You're quick to use the 'ad hominem' argument against others but feel free to use personal attacks when they suit your own agenda.
In my opinion a system of morality based on double-standards is no system of morality at all. It's really just a matter of servitude where you tell others to "do as I say but not as I do." If they refuse to serve you then you condemn them as "oath breakers" or "clandestine" or whatever term you find convenient.
Howard Roark (Jeff Peace),
ReplyDeleteI have never exchanged "emails" with you. You can claim whatever you want. Our only contact has been on public forums. I do recall an inquiry on another forum other than our Spinoza debate where I asked you whether your failed Collegium and Esoteric Club was approved by the GL of GA. I liked your book list. I still do.
When you confessed that your organization was "not approved" and you did not have permission from your GL, our contact ended.
I have since followed your Internet stunts. You seek to attack those who are happy with Regular Freemasonry and the Scottish Rite. Your tactics are well known.
Do not continue to defame me. Men of good character know me and who I am.
Since when do Masons need Grand Lodge approval to belong to academic study societies?
ReplyDeleteThe Collegium was not nor is Masonic. So it would be irrelevant what any Grand Lodge thought, unless of course you grant control over your entire life to your Grand Lodge. The Collegium is an organization based on Greek and Roman themes and was organized for the study of science, philosophy and human spirituality. Membership is free to anyone interested in these subjects. From the beginning it accepted both men and women, and made no claim of being Masonic.
I've met many wonderful people through the Collegium and we still get together for study and fellowship.
The Grand Lodge of Georgia had nothing to say about the Collegium because it isn't Masonic. There are no edicts against it anywhere. Mainstream Masons belong to the Collegium.
So... it is not true that we discussed whether the Grand Lodge of Georgia recognized the Collegium because Grand Lodges don't recognize non-Masonic bodies or claim jurisdiction over them.
And, you are wrong about me in many ways. I have always been against the fraud, corruption and racism in mainstream Freemasonry. I have openly attacked those who promote it through their continuing support.
If the Scottish Rite were on the level they would have no problem revealing their finances to their membership. As a supposed "charitable" fraternal organization their finances should be transparent. I have yet to see anyone produce a detailed accounting of the Scottish Rite's books. What do they have to hide?
This is but one example of the many credibility issues faced by the mainstream fraternity. It should be a cause of concern for all of their members. Where does your dues money go? Show me, don't tell me.
Oh, and I'm glad that you enjoyed the books on the reading list. Unfortunately, the list on the site is very out dated. The present list has many new fascinating books recommended by the members. I still haven't manged to get caught up with all of them.
ReplyDeleteAt the moment I'm reading "Morality and Imagination: Paradoxes of Progress" by YiFu Tuan. While not a Masonic book per se, it should be of interest to many Masons.
it is true,
ReplyDeletemike cicerretti cut out the pipes to our classic pipe organ to seel for scrap, and then spread the rumor that the young guys did it=[
Our organs were registered with the National historical organ society and were to be a stop on their tour, until we told them of the dirty deed that was done.
Just ONE of many terrible deeds done to that facility. Mike cicerretti also listed the building with a realtor with out the consent of the rightful owner, a rigged masonic trial found him not guilty..ofcourse.. not one mason within that Temple got in any trouble for financial malfeasance, property damage, etc..
It really was a crime to HACK out the organs pipe for a few $$$...
Howard, do not waste your time dealing with Kool Ade Drinkers, it only escalates due to an event taking lace that is foriegn to most.. Freemasonry existing outside their world, and being relevant to boot.
When things happen that is beyond ones grasp, they lash out and try to bring you down to their level.
Francois HAD to shoot, "wrest from rightful owners" smack, There never was an issue over who was the "rightful owner", it was all about the grand lodge trying to squeeze us and bankrupt us so we would eventually have to sell because of lack of revenue, but no... since the temple will not be sold, they are mad that they retirement nest egg will ot be divided up between them!
That is what this is all about, a scorned lover wanting $$$ that was never theirs to begin with!
Long Live Right Worshipful Brother John Whitehouse for the only card carrying mason to have the stones to stand up for right!
We are sorry they ruined your name for being a righteous man, our brother and mentor.
to all the postive thinking masons, thank you for your support,
to all the haters out there,
good luck with all your endeavors, we will be too busy to bother with your rhetoric, so please keep it up, there are many unsuspecting masons dissatisfied with the status quo, and when they see masons being expelled without trials, and all the other bullying that goes on, we will be busy dealing with the seekers of Light, not the Title Seeking One Day Master mason!
Long Live RWB John Whitehouse!
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteGo back and re-read my previous post. I referred to you Collegium AND your Esoteric Club. I suppose your Esoteric Club a/k/a the Rite of the Rose Cross of Gold was what the GL of GA had an objection.
In any event, fans of liberal arts and the Age of Enlightenment read many of the same books. I don't think anyone would object to your reading list. I hope you find peace. Spend your time more wisely reading that list and learn to avoid defaming men of good character.
I grow weary of this pointless exchange. You consider anyone who disagrees with you as your enemy. Peace be with you.
Peace be with you.
Stoic,
ReplyDeleteYour rhetoric is so very typical of the twisted pretzel logic of so many uninformed mainstream Masons. You try to convert me into the scape-goat for your sins against mankind and Freemasonry.
My finger never points towards men of good character, but to those who actively support the fraud, corruption and racism within mainstream Freemasonry.
As you illustrated earlier in this series of posts; you are more than willing to defame and malign others for the purpose of serving your own political agenda within the Scottish Rite - Southern Jurisdiction. You are far from a man of good character in my opinion.
Unlike you, I do spend my time very wisely. I stand-up against men like you on a daily basis and point-out what they're doing and supporting. Little by little everyone's eyes are being opened to the sad truth of it all.
Your little cabal is about to come undone. The mainstream Grand Lodges are fearful of what's coming. They're already passing legislation forbidding their lodges from renting space to other organizations. How silly and vain of them. Do they think anyone would actually want to use musty old buildings that have been maintained in years?
The AASR-SJ should also be concerned. The real Scottish Rite has now returned to this country. It practices the real rituals developed in France in the eighteenth century, and not the rubbish Albert Pike made-up in the basement of the old building in Washington DC.
Freemasonry is returning to its roots. We're putting the "Free" back in Freemasonry. The days of corruption, fraud and racism are quickly drawing to a close. A new age is dawning where all Masons (whether male, female, black or white) will be equally recognized. The Age of Enlightenment Part II has already arrived while you and others were wasting time endlessly chatting about nonsense.
There are talkers and then there are doers. Talk is cheap and that's why I prefer doing.
I'm not surprised that you grow weary of this conversation. I have illustrated through your own words that you are not what you claim to be.
Well...you don't have to cut the pipes out, they just lift off of the chests. And they are very easy to damage. Their value as scrap is nearly zip. They are made of lead, tin, and zinc.
ReplyDeleteWere just the pipes removed or the entire organ structure?
Who ever did it, it is a shame. The young guys did not raise money and buy it, and neither did the old guys, the men who did are all dead and it was a violation of their trust. This is true of every old temple and its contents.
Its one thing if you run out of money, people, and ideas, its another to burn the lodge antiques to heat the building. In that case, just give it up and let people who might appreciate it buy it.
Howard Roark (Jeff Peace),
ReplyDeleteNeither I nor anyone who I call a friends in the Scottish Rite or Freemasonry in general actively supports fraud, corruption, or racism as you have claimed. I am against such things and I am on the record saying so in both word and action.
Take you own rhetoric and propaganda somewhere else. We all get the fact that you hate Regular Freemasonry and the Scottish Rite and that you will say or do anything to further your own ends and your new Masonic clubs.
Quit making defamatory remarks about my character.
john galt wrote:
ReplyDelete"I am more than willing to accept that your questions and questioning comes from a good place. Please excuse me as I am not able to share any information about Halcyon. I am not fully informed about them and I would not want to give wrong information. That being the case it is not my place to speak of the situation."
Thank you Brother. I appreciate your position of not knowing. I come from the same place and am attempting to research. My supposition is that the current Halcyon members started with good intentions, as did the older brethren that purportedly wanted to sell the building. I do not want to see the buildings sold. It should be at the will of the brethren whether or not it gets sold. If we start from the supposition that either is evil in their intent, and not merely in error, there is not much to go on. I do not start there; I start with trying to find the facts.
No need to thank me Brother. I may have come across as harsher than I intended. Please accept my apology in that regard.
ReplyDeleteAs to the lodge, there is no reason to think that there were actually nefarious designs behind Halcyon's choices. I am quite interested to hear the rest of the story but that is mostly an intellectual exercise for me. I am not a member and not directly affected by Halcyon. I think that the Brothers there have done a fine job of supporting their structure and have obviously put a lot of work into the building. It would be a shame to see it as a parking lot.
If the allegations of an unnamed organization cutting organ pipes and other such activities are true I would like to see vandalism charges brought. Maybe it is the historian in me but destroying an artifact like that is just criminal and immoral.
On to the topic. Halcyon Lodge has worked hard to build a place of Masonic brotherhood for their members. I am happy to see them be successful.
Fraternally,
Brandt
http://www.jcf.org
ReplyDeleteIn the Knights Templar asylum in my town, there's a large pipe organ with pipes made from ordinary sheet metal. It seems that some long-forgotten knight there was a tin smith, and made the pipes for a group that otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford such an organ.
ReplyDeleteThe pipes are painted with gold paint, and they actually look nice. As for the sound, however, I really couldn't say, as I've never heard anyone play the organ, and I believe there's only one elderly gentleman left in this area with the capacity to play it.
In any event, it's obviously possible to recreate pipe organ pipes, or possibly even to buy pipes from places that are scheduled for demolition. If the rest of the organ is still intact, I wouldn't write it off just yet. If someone actually has an interest in restoring it, I'd say it's very feasible.
-Diogenes
"Neither I nor anyone who I call a friends in the Scottish Rite or Freemasonry in general actively supports fraud, corruption, or racism as you have claimed." - Stoic
ReplyDeleteIn light of the many recent revelations of fraud, corruption, racism, injustice, etc. it seems quite clear that anyone who financially supports the continuation of these organizations is indeed supportive of their actions.
I'm happy to see more and more people being brought to light in the true reality of the situation, and voting with their feet and dollars. The message is quite clear: good moral men simply want no part of these organizations.
Freemasonry has voted successfully against the GL selling off tbe Masonic home in our area, has stopped an unreasonable raise in dues, have given money or other aid to needy families and brothers in need. Our lodge sends aid to the troops overseas in the form of care packets. One brother I know dedicated months of his life in the Katrina area helping out victims. This is the Masonry I know, and only a small sampling of the good done in our area. To my knowledge, only one brother has been dismissed from lodge due to his beginning a prison stint unrelated to Masonry. The GL has power, yes, but they serve at the will of the brethren-not the other way around. The Grand Master is a good mason and a moral person. It has been a line like this for years. When I needed someone to fill in for a roughian, I called the DGM in a nearby town. He had a roughian of high quality for me the next day. I can only speak from experience-it has been extremely positive for myself. We have added 10 masons to our roles in the last year. Might not seem like much, but our area is small. We are doing Masonic education and awarding college scholarships. There is much good going on in Masonry. Other cities in the state are going gangbusters with younger members. One well-attended lodge now has an average age of 26. I do financially support the endeavors of my lodge and GL, and see visible good in the community for it.
ReplyDelete"Freemasonry has voted successfully against..." - Francois
ReplyDeleteThat is not true and you know it.
"Freemasonry" hasn't voted against anything. Perhaps your Grand Lodge has voted in that way, but that is only one of more than 80, when you consider Prince Hall.
"Freemasonry has voted successfully against..." - Francois
ReplyDeleteThat is not true and you know it.
"Freemasonry" hasn't voted against anything. Perhaps your Grand Lodge has voted in that way, but that is only one of more than 80, when you consider Prince Hall."
I was at the particular GL meeting, with some 150 (guess) regular brethren in attendance from their respective lodges. It was a heated debate, but the delegates voted against the GL resolution, much to the latter's chagrin. Having been there and seen it, I know Freemasonry 'voted against' it. It is TRUE, and I know it, because I was there and voted. I watched the count and received the reaction from several GL and regular members. Our GL didn't vote any way-the brethren it serves did the voting. I cannot speak for 80 other GLs, just my experience.
To allay confusion, here is a definition of Freemasonry from Bessel.org:
ReplyDelete"Freemasonry is a Fraternity composed of moral men of legal age..."
There is more to the definition, but the point to be made is that Freemasonry is NOT the GL, and it is NOT every group claiming Freemasonry as a whole. Freemasonry is a Fraternity. A single lodge constitutes Freemasonry and is Freemasonry. An area with a GL constitutes Freemasonry.
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ReplyDeleteFrancois,
ReplyDeleteThat's very very deceptive remark. You appear to be trying to deceive the general public into believing that Freemasonry is one cohesive body when you know it is not.
Each Grand Lodge operates independently and makes its own rules and decisions.
Your earlier remark appears to speak as if all of Freemasonry is doing the things you listed. This is an outright fabrication. Your use of rhetoric in this case was clearly meant to deceive those ignorant of the facts.
I'm more amazed every day at how far mainstream Masons will stretch the truth and avoid dealing head-on with their failures.
After all of your high sentenced language in other posts you now stoop to the level of fabrication to try and make a point. Very sad and very immoral.
Apparently, not all Freemasonry is composed of moral men.
"Your earlier remark appears to speak as if all of Freemasonry is doing the things you listed. This is an outright fabrication. Your use of rhetoric in this case was clearly meant to deceive those ignorant of the facts."
ReplyDeleteIt was not meant to deceive. My view of Freemasonry is what is done in the name of it in my lodge that is clearly observable. I do assume the good work done here to be reflected in other areas, that is true. If it was 'clearly meant to deceive', you can clearly prove it. Not speculate; PROVE. If you can't, it was an immoral statement on your part(according to you).It was NOT intended to deceive, but only to relate my experience. Perhaps the language upholds your assertion, but it DOES NOT do so intentionally on my part.