Monday, September 18, 2006

'Jesus Camp' prepares Christian kids to fight, die for their religion

Every few weeks a story comes along that prompts me to write something like this: "Religion is the number one cause of war, hatred and injustice." A reader almost always then tries to correct me by commenting "no, it's people that cause those things, not religion."

To which I say, "Feh!"

ABC News reported recently on a new documentary, Jesus Camp, that tells of a North Dakota Christian camp called "Kid's on Fire," that is literally training evangelical Christian teens and pre-teens to die for Jesus. Not figuratively, but literally. The mindset is being instilled that these kids should be just as fervently willing to die for their religion as fundamentalist Muslim children are.

At the ABC news site, you can watch a news video about the camp. It seems rather diabolical, for something that purports to be for the glory of the Prince of Peace.

You can watch kids, some who look as young as six or so, speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush.

"I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places," pastor and camp leader Becky Fisher said. "Because, excuse me, we have the truth."

"A lot of people die for God," one camper said, "and they're not afraid."

"We're kinda being trained to be warriors," said another, "only in a funner way."

Ah, yes, war is fun.

Onward, Christian soldiers
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.

Lauren Sandler, the author of Righteous, a book about the growing evangelical Christian youth movement, says the movement will have a negative impact on the country's future, because even the most moderate young evangelicals are inflexible on issues such as abortion and gay marriage.

"It's an absolute, straight-up us-against-them," Sandler said. "It's, you're either with us or you're against us. Not only are you a sinner, but you are working for the enemy — the enemy being Satan."

Sounds like something the Muslim fundamentalists would say, as they're gearing up to bring World War IV to a street near you, thanks to Pope Benedict the Backpeddler.

With training camps like this, is it possible one day we'll have to worry about Christian zombie soldiers, or even Christian suicide bombers?

Don't think it isn't possible. Last week, ABC News reported that an Athens, Alabama woman and two of her "disciples" held her brother at gunpoint while forcing him to repent of his sins and ask for Jesus's forgiveness. Police were at first skeptical of the story, but after examining evidence, including a bullethole left in the ceiling after Tammie Lee Doss popped off a round because her bubba Randy wasn't praying hard enough, charges of unlawful imprisonment and menacing were filed against the three.

Jesus was unavailable for comment.

Fortunately, God has spoken recently on the subject, giving us the Five Steps to Peace, which I repeat once again for your edification:
You are facing now a new and startling danger — a danger posed to your entire species. A threat to your very survival posed by the combination of a split in ideology and an advance in technology, which makes it possible for you to seek to resolve your differences with tools of human destruction unlike anything you may have heretofore dreamed of in your worst nightmare.

There are five things you can choose now if changing your world, and the self-destructive direction in which it is moving, is what you wish to achieve.
  1. You can choose to acknowledge that some of your old beliefs about God and about Life are no longer working.

  2. You can choose to acknowledge that there is something you do not understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which will change everything.

  3. You can choose to be willing for a new understanding of God and Life to now be brought forth, an understanding that could produce a new way of life on your planet.

  4. You can choose to be courageous enough to explore and examine this new understanding, and, if it aligns with your inner truth and knowing, to enlarge your belief system to include it.

  5. You can choose to live your lives as demonstrations of your highest and grandest beliefs, rather than as denials of them.
These are the Five Steps to Peace, and if you take them, you can shift everything on your planet.
Update, Sept. 20Julie R. Neidlinger, who describes herself as a lifelong Pentecostal Christian and hints at being on her way to spinsterhood at age 32, defends the Jesus Camp in her blog, referring to author Lauren Sandler as "Miss Liberal Feminist" instead of by name. Julie has this disclaimer next to her photo on her blog: "So you think you hate me and wish to leave a nasty comment on this blog covered by the veil of anonymity. Two words: moderated comments. Four words: Don't waste your time." Sounds like someone I want to share a pew with. Julie gives the term "Christian apologist" a whole new meaning. Julie's blog article linked to this one, so we thought we'd return the favor. Hey, Julie!

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  1. That's some scary stuff, but I doubt it will catch on with that many people. And that's scary too, because it has caught on with so many Muslims. At least it would provide a kind of balance. Maybe we would be lucky and the two of them would wipe each other out, then the rest of us might actually have a chance for peace-for once.

  2. This is frightening to me. After a few years, these people become the ones who kill other people for not believeing what they tell you to believe. I think its safe to call it fundamentalist "fascist" Christians training.

  3. I believe that I made a prediction on "The Baptist Heresy" blog site that evangelical Christianity is one of the most dangerous threats to the United States and the concept of democracy today. Several other bloggers have picked up on the same vibe. Are we the only people that recognize that this is truly a threat?! How long before some of these nut-ball fringe loonies start blowing themselves up at election offices because their candidate of choice didnt win, or in front of schools because of the teaching of evolution over creationism.
    How long before we perceive the erosion of our own rights to practice what we believe out of fear of violence from these fanatics?
    How long before these loonies make it impossible to "disagree" with their views?
    In my opinion, this "preacher" heading up this group should be rounded up and put away for brainwashing these kids! Some may cry, "FREE SPEECH AND RELIGION!!! What about those??!!" To that, I say that I draw the line on free speech and religion when it's used to take the life or choice away from someone else! There has to be a line drawn somewhere!

    Darren Simpson

  4. ..By the way...

    The Fundamentalist Christians did rise up and cause the destruction of the most powerful nation on earth...Rome. And ya wonder why most were fed to the lions! I say, too many Christians and not enough lions...

    Darren Simpson

    PS- And I'm a Christian for God's sake!!! Even I realize there's a problem!

  5. For those that have consciously decided to pursue, happiness, love, Truth, and common sense, there is an internal war that takes place. The Toltecs regard individuals that take up this challenge as Spiritual Warriors. The battleground for this struggle takes place in the mind. On one side is the yearning for love, happiness, and connection with Life and Spirit.

    On the opposing side is the incessant chatter in the mind that is full of opinions, judgments, and false beliefs that stir up emotions of fear, anger, and frustration. I refer to this conglomeration in the mind as the Belief System (or BS for short). In his book The Four Agreements, don Miguel Ruiz refers to this as the mitote or parasite. One of the most frustrating aspects of this battle is that we seem to support both sides. In some moments we are kind to ourselves, and in another moment we may judge ourselves.

    For the Spiritual Warrior to win over the BS in their mind they will have to expand their awareness to avoid being trapped by the Belief System. Awareness is a state of perception that allows the spiritual warrior to refrain from actions that are not impeccable, even when they may appear to be “right.” Awareness is the critical first step in order to refrain from the belief system traps.

    One of the major mistakes that we make in challenging our own belief system is that we go after it like we would a traditional war. We try to come out on top and win. From that paradigm we look at the challenge as a competition and associate winning with beating the opponent. This is our traditional cultural training. This comes from a belief paradigm that we are so accustomed to that we don’t recognize it as part of the Belief System. This approach puts us in a fighting mode which is likely to consume us with attitudes of the parasite. These include fear of losing, failing, and measurements for judgments to ensue. The approach of trying to “win” or “beat” the parasite tricks us out of our emotional integrity.

    When we try to change a belief, it is generally based on the assumption that there is something “wrong” with it. Our desire to change a behavior may be because we don’t like what it is creating in our life. This point of view is likely to be of judgment and rejection. This might also be an attitude of victimization. In both these cases our motivations to change are driven from the reactions of the inner judge and victim. Our efforts to change are corrupted by the belief system.

    In our efforts to “improve” we are building our solution on the needs and decisions of judgment and victimization. When we take this approach to “change” we are aligning with our inner judge and victim. We are now working on behalf of the belief system we are trying to dismantle. Having your inner judge and victim direct the changes in your life will lead to frustrations in your process.

    If the Spiritual Warrior is to become free of the parasite in the mind then he will have to refrain from corrupted approaches of “winning” or “self-improvement.” The clarity and awareness to see these traps and refrain from falling in them is essential to a warrior’s freedom and happiness.

    What is critical to understand is that the very Belief System that is coming up with solutions for happiness in our life is at the very source of our unhappiness. When I explain this to my clients, and they really understand it, their first question becomes, “Then what do I do to fix it?”

    The first step is awareness. First realize that it is the parasitic Belief System that is asking the question “What do I do to fix it?” We start with the awareness that the underlying assumption underneath this question is, “There is something wrong, and I reject the current situation.” It is this expression of judgment and victimization that creates the feeling of dissatisfaction and unhappiness to begin with. "What do I do to fix it?" is just a reaction to the judge and victim. It is these hidden assumptions that we must address.

    Then what is a solution path if we can not trust our mind to unravel its own agreements? I suggest a path that is twofold. The first part is to make your primary intent about Self Acceptance instead of self improvement. Self acceptance is the opposite of judgment and rejection. Self Acceptance will lead you to love and happiness. The second part is to dismantle the limiting fear based beliefs in your mind. This can be challenging. Depending on how serious you are, you may want to consider guidance for this undertaking.

  6. Hey back. Thanks for the link.

    Three things:
    1. Lauren Sandler was introduced in the ABC News clip as a liberal feminist. I don't actually call her "Miss Liberal Feminist." I don't mention her by name because I didn't jot it down as I watched the clip.

    2. That's a rotating java script under my blog photo. Hit refresh and see what I mean. But you don't have to share my pew; we "spinsters" don't want to be bothered.

    3. I'm not an apologist by any real stretch of the word. Apologists everywhere are laughing. But thanks anyway.

  7. Julie, Sept. 19, in her blog "Revisiting Jesus Camp": "Miss Liberal Feminist forgot to point out Pastor Becky wasn't wearing a burkha, not to mention the fact of Pastor Becky."

    Julie, Sept. 20, in the previous comment: "I don't actually call her 'Miss Liberal Feminist.'"

    — W.S.

  8. W.S., and all,

    Taken out of context these sensationalistic images do appear to be training boys and girls to take up arms. But I've watched the whole film, and this is simply not the case. And your assertion that kids are being taught to "literally" die for the cause is incorrect. Language like this has been a part of Christianity from the beginning, and it refers to something quite different than physical death.

    Being a Pentecostal myself, and having watched the documentary and taken extensive notes on the thing, I have many concerns as well. I don't agree with Fischer's approach, and I don't hold to her particular view of God and the Bible. Several aspects of camp life and practice are very bothersome to me. So, I recognize there is much to criticize.

    However, asserting that this is the new American Taliban simply ignores the realities of Evangelical and Pentecostal culture.

    I have a fuller commentary on the film at my blog for any who are interested.



  9. Rich,

    Whether these kids are being trained to take up arms or not, kids at this age (or any age) shouldn't be quaking and holy-rolling and weeping for Jesus or for anyone.

    Several years ago my wife and I made the mistake of taking our young son to an Easter egg hunt sponsored by a local evangelical World Harvest church. Before the hunt was to begin, everyone was invited in "for a movie."

    Hundreds of children (mine was then aged three) and their parents packed the barn-like structure favored by evangelical churches, and as the movie opens, what do we see? BAM! BAM! BAM! Nails being driven into hands, up close and personal! I mean, JESUS! Do they have to show that kind of carnage to pre-schoolers!? We immediately walked out, never to return.

    Religion is a dangerous thing. Just look at Israel and Palestine. Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq. Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. The Taliban. The Crusades. The American Moral Majority. Heaven's Gate. Guyana. Waco.

    — W.S.

  10. W.S., I respect your point-of-view, especially concerning your children and especially regarding showing the crucifixion (or any violent imagery) to toddlers and very young children. I have no complaints with you there.

    But you state, "kids at this age (or any age) shouldn't be quaking and holy-rolling and weeping for Jesus or for anyone." Can I ask what you base this rule on? Is it simply that you feel all religion is necessarily evil and children shouldn't be exposed to it? Or is it that you think strong emotions are bad? Or what? I don't get it. Is there a sociological study that has demonstrated that Pentecostal/Charismatic experiences among the young do something damaging to their psychological makeup or something? Please explain, if you would.

    Yes, I agree with you, religion is a dangerous thing. Couldn't agree more, in fact. Off the top of my head, though, I can think of a number of things that are dangerous but which I still invite in my life and enjoy despite their dangers. Electricity, gasoline, driving at any rate of speed, peanut-butter, politics. Love.

    Has anything caused more heartache in this world than love?

    I personally wish to avoid arguing extremist examples. That's the kind of argument that simply becomes circular and proves nothing. For every one million deaths attributed to religion I'm sure we could find another million deaths attributable to land grabbing, politics, feudalism, self-defense, or just plain ignorance. These are arguments from marginal cases and they ultimately prove nothing.

    I, for one, haven't killed anybody for at least a week--no pagans any way. And I think I'm a pretty nice guy. Not as nice as, say, Santa Claus, but certainly not as ruthless as Mussolini.



  11. Excuse me, when are you guys ever going to throw lines from the Bible back into those Christians' faces? Apparently you've never heard of "pray for your enemies" or "love thy neighbor". These Christians are wallowing in their own filth, paying no attention to love, grace, and freedom (unless it applies only to them). I have made numerous posts about how I am against this so-called Evangelical Movement which claims to love God but do not love their own fellow brother Christians (no matter what denomination) which proves they cannot love God at all and they are liars. "How can you say you love God if you hate your brother? Your brother you have seen, your God you have not seen." If they grab Christianity all for themselves and say the cross of Christ is only for them and no one else, what kind of Christianity is that? If they say they represent the truth and support torture, and lies, and bloodshed around the world and teach little children to do the same, they are in big trouble with God and his Son.

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Because of all this nonsense I've made a vow to live a non-violent life, even if it means giving up everything and anything. I am so tired of these Christians who claim God is on their side and only their side; they will find out that men have to be on God's side, and God said, "Seek peace and pursue it."

    Furthermore, tongues are only to be spoken if an interpreter is present in the church.

    Using the Old Testament as a means to promote a violent philosophy is what Christ came to free us from.

    And you guys who make fun of God and his Son by saying things like "Jesus was unavailable for comment will see one day that "God is not mocked." You deceive yourselves into thinking God's inaction against you is some kind of license to blaspheme. You think you're so smart and so witty. God's inaction shows his love and his grace, and his perfect patience. You guys and all the others who mock God will all find that what you sow you will reap. But I would never pass a law that forbids you from doing what you please, this sin is between you and God, and has nothing whatsoever to do with me from this point on.

    Be filthy if that is what you want. I'll be too busy waiting for Christ's arrival to stop you from being filthy, and to stop the Evangelicals from losing their place in the kingdom.

  12. Why the Evangelicals have as much blood on their hands as Bush does:

    2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

  13. Good thing the President doesn't eat over at my house any more.


  14. Real good sarcasm, Rich. I was clearly talking about the Evangelicals, who would have him over for a meal anytime. But did I have to explain that? I guess I did.

  15. I don't agree with everything this guy says at this link ...

    ... But I do understand his frustration with the world of religion. Too many Christians don't know when to pull back, retreat from their aggressive attacks. Fact is, Christ is more concerned about the world HEARING THE GOSPEL than OBEYING THE GOSPEL. He says things like, "And then this Gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come." Does this mean we Christians must find converts or we fail to meet some kind of quota? Christians get all in a huff when people don't convert and actually get angry -- this attitude is what brought on the Spanish Inquisition!

    Relax, you foolish Christians! Speak of the love of God and leave the results to God! Who do you think you are, forcing others to join our religion, saying "Join us, or else!"? I wish I could take your heads and bang them together until they ring like bells!

    I didn't find very much that I disagreed with when it came to this speaker. I have no idea who he is but a lot of what he said made sense. Even so, I'm under the sneaking suspicion that people like him are way too paranoid about people like us Christians, and damn it to hell if they don't have good reason to be!

    Unless we all come to realize that our beliefs can be used for dangerous things as well as for good things, how are we ever going to figure out exactly what we are doing wrong, or which one of our ministers is leading us astray?

    "Woe to the man that trusts in man." This means no minister is to be trusted implicitly. No man deserves the kind of trust one usually places in God himself!

    If any Evangelical says Armageddon is the coolest ever and is coming soon to a theater near you, so to speak, they forget the saying, Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. 19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. 20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

    Christian heretics! Turn from your desire to see Armageddon fulfilled! For all you have to offer the world is pure darkness!

  16. You must see this site ...

    ... It's a political site about how the Religious Right is taking over America.


    No matter how you cut it, what follows is pure evil, a group of Evangelical Wolves taking over our country dressed in Sheep's Clothing ...

    "This movement is a hybrid of fundamentalists, Pentacostals, Southern Baptists, Conservative Catholics, Charismatics and other evangelicals, all of whom are at war doctrinally, but who nonetheless share a belief that America is destined to become a Christian nation, led by Christian men who are in turn directed by God...Lately the leaders of the movement have even begun to reach out to Mormons," says the site.


    "Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society," say the Rightists.


    Even other Christian Sects are in danger:

    "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists, and this and that and the other thing. Nonsense! I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist." (Rob Boston, Pat Robertson, the Most Dangerous Man in America?, Prometheus Books, 1996, p. 149.)


    The Fundamentalism Project was sponsored by the American Academy of Arts and Sciences to study the rise of fundamentalism worldwide. The volumes are published by the University of Chicago Press. Harding writes: LaHaye urged Christians to pray and witness as usual and also to help the victims of humanism ... to join the national drive to register Christian voters ... to run for public office ... (pp. 69) [Falwell] argued that unless born-again Christians acted politically ... they would lose their ... [ability] to fulfill Biblical prophecy. (p. 70)

    In other words, political involvement is required to get raptured.


    Chip Berlet, senior analyst for Political Research Associates, is quoted in The Progressive as saying,

    "Bush is very much into the apocalyptic and messianic thinking of militant Christian evangelicals. He seems to buy into the worldview that there is a giant struggle between good and evil culminating in a final confrontation. People with that kind of a worldview often take risks that are inappropriate and scary because they see it as carrying out God's will."


    One of the ideas they express is:

    The Death penalty for people who have abortions, unrepentant homosexuals, etc.


    The spirit of the anti-Christ has risen in the hearts of the Christian Evangelicals. I have a message for them ...

    John 8:44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


  17. Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    1 Corinthians {13:1}If I speak with the languages of men and of angels, but don't have love, I have become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.{13:2}If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but don't have love, I am nothing.{13:3}If I dole out all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but don't have love, it profits me nothing.{13:4}Love is patient and is kind; love doesn't envy. Love doesn't brag, is not proud,{13:5}doesn't behave itself inappropriately, doesn't seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil;{13:6}doesn't rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;{13:7}bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.{13:8}Love never fails ...

    From George Grant, a leading dominionist writer in The Changing of the Guard, Biblical Principles for Political Action:

    Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.

    But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.

    It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

    It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.

    It is dominion we are after.

    World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. (pp. 50-51)

    (The above quote comes from Dominion Theology: Blessing or Curse by Thomas Ice, published in 1988 by H. Wayne House and Thomas Ice. pp. 412)


    Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



    You poor people, you were so busy looking for the devil out there in the world that you forgot about the evil in your own hearts.

  18. 1.

    Yeah, Christian Nation, that’s a good one, eh? I’m a Christian and was with the Fundamentalists years ago, and I remember their patriotic songs,

    “I believe in America, I believe in the red, white, and blue!”

    Or something like that. I always felt uncomfortable about worshipping this country as if it represented heaven and all its values were supposed to be embodied in it. I could not trust in a country that dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I could not trust a country that assassinated its own people, like JFK and Martin Luther.

    I can’t trust in Jerry Falwell if he takes tons of money from Reverend Moon, who was hated during the time I was with the Fundies, because he was seen as a false Messiah. Christ commands us not to meet with such men.

    Jesus talks about a “falling away” a great apostasy, and the fact that the devil would try to deceive the elect (if that were possible). If things go according to the ancient prophecies there will arise a man who can work magic and perform wonders. So this guy is supposed to be able to make fire come down from the sky and other things only Hollywood was capable of doing with their myriad of computers. I don’t care about the lying wonders he will do in this world, what I am concerned with is where he will come from. Will he arise from the Evangelicals? I mean, most Evangelicals will tell you the antiChrist is a fallen Christian. If this is so, what the hell are they doing going into politics?

    Others say it is not a political figure, and that all he will need to convince the world to follow him are the signs and wonders he is capable of performing. I don’t know who he is but I’ll tell you one thing, the world at this point is ripe for his appearance.

    Jerry Falwell has called the antiChrist a Jew, as if a man like him would know anything about how to interpret Bible prophecy. Here is a man who befriended a Christ-wannabe and has therefore made himself unclean.

    “Where the corpse is the vultures will gather.” Death and decay has come to Christendom in the form of the Evangelicals. Corpses and vultures seek to rule our nation. These are people who will spend eternity in the deepest darkness along with all the unholy angels that turned away from God and are too evil to let loose on the earth.

    Tim LaHaye will find himself still on earth by the time the Temple in Jerusalem is built and the Christians are getting their heads chopped off and Armageddom will be in full swing, and he’ll stand there wondering why the Rapture did not occur. And the forces of evil will be coming for him. He will flee from a lion only to run into a bear.

    1 Thessalonians 5:3 - For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    2 Peter 3:4 - And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    Many will be disappointed because the Evangelical Prophecies are not coming true …

    Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    Why would any man trust a Christian anyway, when Christ himself admitted …

    Luke 16:8 - And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

    Jesus himself admitted that unbelievers are smarter than the believers. Look at Jerry Falwell, he is proof of this!

    You don’t want the Christians who are admittedly inferior ruling this country, they will drive it into the ground and there will be no one to save it. It will be a sinking ship.

    It is true that Christ will come and he will set up his kingdom, but that time is not now, not yet, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

    I will look to the cross of Christ, I will not look to the Christian flag; soon I think that flag will be sprayed with the blood of the Christian Saints.

  19. 2.

    The Religious Right is too busy looking for The Great Apostasy to see that THEY ARE THE GREAT APOSTASY !!! My prayer is that some of them will escape the lies and the abuse of power their leaders are generating.

    Let’s face it, brothers and sisters, the true Christians will meet in the prisons, for those who have gone over to the devil himself will put them there. Any Christian Sect that seeks to own the courts and the police and change the laws of our Nation for their own twisted reasons, is the Sect we should be worrying about.

    Christ said,

    Matthew 24:9 - Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

    Don’t you have ears to hear? Afflicted, afflicted, afflicted, afflicted … How many times do I have to say it? Afflicted … tortured … afflicted … tortured…

    Killed … murdered … Killed … murdered …

    Bush … Evangelicals … Bush … Evangelicals …

    Bye bye, Miss American Pie, drove my Chevy to the levy but the levy was dry, and good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye, singing, This will be the day that I die …

    Now, I don’t like all the lyrics that are in that song, it is very irreverent and sacreligious, but, there’s a mood and a sentiment it expresses about things coming to an end that just lingers in the mind and settles on the heart. Anyway, let’s get back to the subject at hand …

    I’ve written elsewhere that I always thought The Great Christian Persecution would occur as a result of the Christians trying to do something good, like end world hunger. Little did I know it would be due to our own sins.

    Furthermore, many of the leaders that are trying to grab political power in our Nation, many of them have made prophecies that did not come true, as to the Rapture and the coming of Christ and other things. Read Deut.18:22 and you shall see that a true prophet of God ALWAYS gets it right because he is not speaking from his own heart, he is saying what he was told to say, in essence repeating what was told to him. You’ll find many of the Religious Right are prophets not sent by God and they are not to be feared. They are false prophets, and they will follow false prophets. They will only listen to liars they agree with.

    March 20, 2003 John Hagee told Benny Hinn on the air that the rapture would occur within the next six months. Hinn questioned him about it being that close, and Hagee replied, “It’s that close.”

    Anyone who give mankind a prophecy and fails is a reject and not to be trusted. You’ll most likely find many of these types hiding in the circles of the Religious Right. We cannot have false prophets ruling our country!

    There are way too many false prophets in this world, too many! Please, be careful! The Christian Evangelicals are not here to help us! They are here to put their hands in our pockets and their knives on our backs!


    The Fundamentals? Ha! I was a Fundie for three years and I'll tell you how their belief system works and fails ...

    They attract you with words of love and peace and whatnot, and use the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a front. Let me explain. They have a prayer I like to call The Eternal Prayer which is based on verses taken from the New Testament (one such prayer is called The Roman's Road to Salvation), they'll have you believe that if you pray this kind of prayer you will be saved. In their eyes being saved means to be saved forever, sealed with the holy ghost.

    But as you progress as a convert you will soon see that the prayer for salvation is overshadowed by a more sinister element I call The Other Fundamentals. These beliefs are a test of your loyalty to the organization: Virgin Birth, The Trinity, and many other doctrines that overshadow the death, burial, and resurrection.

    You see, they tell you God will accept you as you are, and they sing the Just As I Am song to get you to come forward, but, you will soon learn that was just to suck you in. Now they want to chew on you like a good piece of meat.

    They'll ask you to change your habits, your way of thinking, and add a lot of other beliefs to see if you are willing and able to remain part of the flock.

    Now, you HAVE to believe in the Virgin Birth, and you HAVE to believe Jesus is God, and many other things. They are chewing on you good now, remember, and if you don't taste well they'll spit you out!

    Yes, if you don't believe the other Fundamentals you are an outcast, a reject, not fit to be one of them. They will turn their backs on you, tell you not to visit the church anymore, and leave you outside in the soaking rain to catch cold and die.

    You cannot be a part of the Fundamentalist Movement if you do not agree with everything they say about the Bible. Each Fundamentalist Church may differ on certain beliefs, but, you are considered a waste of time if you disagree with them on what they consider to be major issues.

    Where is the love? What happened to the cross of Christ, and the burial, and the resurrection? They will make you doubt your salvation, in fact even tell you the devil might be pulling your strings and making you say things he wants you to say and think.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ no longer means anything, they have trashed it to make you feel terrible.

    So, you leave the Church, or they ask you to leave, and they'll give you no direction as to what to do or where to go. They'd never tell you that you could try a different denomination that might suit your personality better, no way! So, whatever became of The Eternal Prayer, The Roman's Road?

    You're left standing there, and the door is shut in your face, and you don't even know if you are saved or not.

    The Old Rugged Cross ... it's ... gone ... fading away in the distance ... because they found out you were gay, or you could not believe in some doctrine they felt was important. Could it be they found out you had AIDS because of a dirty needle or some doctor's carelessness? Could it be you didn't want to participate in some church activity you found was a humiliation and you decided to keep your dignity? Maybe you heard some minister say the stupidest thing you've ever heard in your life and you openly disagreed?

    Whatever the case, all you have now is nothing, and nowhere to go to seek the spiritual healing you need!

    I hope some people out there read this little post and decide to stay away from the Fundies, and go to a church that preaches the Gospel as the most important aspect of Christianity, and leaves the rest to you and God.

    "If I have not love, I am nothing." The Apostle Paul - A Murderer of Christians.

  21. Enjoy the following gems ...


    'Jesus Camp' Draws Attention to Charismatic Minister

    By The Associated Press
    Tue, Oct. 31 2006

    MANDAN, N.D. (AP) - The Rev. Becky Fischer runs a children's summer camp that isn't about making crafts, roasting marshmallows or telling scary stories around the campfire.
    magnifier Enlarge this Image
    Becky Fischer
    Attention Prompts 'Jesus Camp' to Leave Devil's Lake
    (October 28, 2006)

    At the Kids on Fire summer camp in Devils Lake, it's about "taking back America for Christ."

    Children as young as 5 years old squirm in spiritual ecstasy, speak in tongues, sob for salvation and dance with their faces painted in camouflage as part of "God's army."

    Fischer is convinced the children in her ministry will help fix this "sick ol' world" – so sure that she allowed filmmakers an inside look at her work, the result of which is the documentary "Jesus Camp," released last month.

    Since then, the film has received generally good reviews, and Fischer, a charismatic Christian, says she thinks it's a fair if not entirely accurate portrayal of her ministry. But the movie also has exposed her to attacks from both the right and the left, she said in an interview at her F.I.R.E (Families Ignited for Revival & Evangelism) Center in downtown Mandan, just outside Bismarck.

    "It's not just wackos ripping me for child abuse – I'm taking hits from the Christian community," Fischer said, calling Christian conservatives who dislike the film "knuckleheads."

    "The one thing that people are really tripping over is the emotion they see in those kids," she said. "It's unbelievable for someone who doesn't know Jesus."

    The 55-year-old former art teacher and sign business operator is an animated, outspoken woman who acts as a drill instructor for her religious recruits at the summer camp. She uses stern lectures, and props such as globs of goo to show what impure thoughts do to a child's brain.

    "Harry Potter would have been put to death," she tells the children at one point. "Warlocks are the enemy of God!"

    In one scene, teary-eyed children pray to a life-size cutout of President Bush and ask God to place "righteous judges" on the U.S. Supreme Court. In another, children are shown at an anti-abortion rally in Washington, D.C., their lips sealed with red tape.

    "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam," Fischer said in an interview.

    New York-based filmmakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady shot the documentary over a year starting in April 2005. The summer camp part of the film was shot during a weeklong session in Devils Lake, in northeast North Dakota.

    "We were looking for a film that would let us explore faith and religion through the eyes of children," said Grady, who is Jewish.

    The Kids on Fire camp has averaged about 150 campers a year.

    Sixteen-year-old Samantha Riel and her sister, Jessica, 8, sold Pizza Hut coupons to pay for the $185, four-day camp, which accepts 5-year-olds to adults. The girls live on a dairy farm in Raleigh, in southwest North Dakota.

    "There is just no way to describe it," Samantha Riel said. "It was awesome – you get so totally pumped up with God."

    Fischer moved to Bismarck 22 years ago to open a custom sign business after stints as an art teacher and motel and radio station manager in Montana. She is single and has no children – she said she couldn't stand baby-sitting as a teen – and has been a children's minister for about 15 years.

    "I'm the most unlikely candidate to end up in children's ministry," she said. She felt her calling – which she calls "my anointing" – after working with youngsters as a teacher.

    The filmmakers said they found Fischer and her ministry after Web searches and talking with pastors across the country. "Her name kept coming up," Grady said. "We called her up and went and visited her and thought she was an incredibly charismatic – not in the religious sense – colorful person on a profound mission."

    Ewing, who was raised as a Roman Catholic, said the reaction to the film depends on the audience. "Some see it as salvatory and another group sees it as terrifying," Ewing said. "There is a lot discussion on all sides, so we think it's a job well done."

    Fischer said she plans to invite pastors from area churches of all denominations for a private screening of the documentary in Bismarck before it is released in theaters there. She understands the film has been upsetting to some viewers, but remains firm in her convictions.

    "My goal and my vision is to change the way the Christian church disciples her children," Fischer said. "The devil goes after the young. We have to have more than coloring pages of Adam and Eve or we'll lose them."

    Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


    Attention Prompts 'Jesus Camp' to Leave Devil's Lake

    By The Associated Press
    Sat, Oct. 28 2006

    BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - A woman whose summer camp for children near Devil's Lake, N.D., was featured in a documentary called "Jesus Camp," says all the attention led to her decision not to continue camps there.
    'Jesus Camp' Disturbs Some Christians
    (September 20, 2006)

    "I have a responsibility to keep the children safe," the Rev. Becky Fischer said.

    Fischer said the camp, which is owned by the Assemblies of God and rents to a number of groups, was vandalized after the release of the movie about her Kids on Fire camp. The Assemblies of God church also was vandalized, she said.

    The camp's windows were broken and it had about $1,500 worth of damage. Police figure the church was vandalized the same night, said the Rev. Winston Titus, the camp administrator.

    Critics have accused Fischer of brainwashing. She has said she wants to encourage young people to be committed Christians.

    Titus said his staff has had calls from both sides - some threatening a boycott if the camp continues renting to Fischer's group, and others threatening a boycott if it does not.

    "Right now, we just want it to be over," Titus said. "Any publicity just stirs things up."

    Fischer has asked that Magnolia Pictures not release the Jesus Camp movie in the Bismarck area because she worries about the risk of other incidents there.

    She said the movie is scheduled at the Fargo Theater on Nov. 17, and will be out on DVD in a couple of months.

    Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


    Meanwhile ...

    San Jose Mercury News, 1992, Two articles -- one before the election, one after:

    A group dedicated to making the Bible the law of the land has quietly positioned itself to take over the Republican Party's power structure in Santa Clara County.

    The 17 Christian right candidates for the Republican Central Committee appear on a mailer put out by a Tehama County group called Citizens for Liberty. The flier says the candidates advocate "traditional family values, more jobs, lower taxes, welfare reform and choice in education."

    But at least some have a more sweeping agenda ... Some see takeover plans. More liberal Republicans say the Central Committee campaign is part of a widespread "stealth" effort to take over America by starting with little-noticed local races. They cite elections in San Diego County two years ago, when 60 of 90 Christian right candidates for low-level offices won election, largely by campaigning through conservative churches.

    "Clearly the strategy is to control the central committees and then use the central committees to give credibility to their candidates," said Luis Buhler...

    A fundraising letter ... includes "a call for the death penalty for abortion, adultery and unrepentant homosexuality."


    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. Nov 2, 2006 (AP)— The leader of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals, a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, resigned Thursday after being accused of paying for sex with a man in monthly trysts over the past three years.

    The Rev. Ted Haggard, a married father of five who has been called one of the most influential evangelical Christians in the nation, denied the allegations. His accuser refused to share voice mails that he said backed up his claim.

    Haggard also stepped aside as head of his 14,000-member New Life Church while a church panel investigates, saying he could "not continue to minister under the cloud created by the accusations."

    "I am voluntarily stepping aside from leadership so that the overseer process can be allowed to proceed with integrity," Haggard said in a written statement. "I hope to be able to discuss this matter in more detail at a later date."

  23. Evangelical In Gay Sex Scandal Admits Buying Meth

    (CBS News) COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. The Rev. Ted Haggard admitted Friday he bought methamphetamine and received a massage from a gay prostitute who claims he was paid for drug-fueled trysts by the former head of the National Association of Evangelicals.

    "I bought it for myself but never used it," Haggard told reporters gathered outside his home. "I was tempted but I never used it."

    Haggard, 50, said he never had sex with Michael Jones, a 49-year-old Denver man who raised the allegations this week. Haggard said he received a massage from Jones after being referred to him by a Denver hotel.

    Haggard, who was leaving his home with his wife and three of his five children, said he bought the meth because he was curious. He said he threw it away.

  24. Dr. Charles Nestor, National Clergy Council's Senior Fellow for Public Policy, spoke for the council saying they are "saddened" by Haggard's stepping down.

    "Many have already rushed to raise charges of yet another evangelical clergy hypocrisy. Evangelicals teach that homosexual behavior is proscribed in the Bible and is therefore to be viewed as a sin in all cases," he said in a released statement. "Many are raising the charge of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the playing of a role, i.e., as an actor, without the inward conviction that it represents the truth. Pastor Haggard’s swift resignations indicate to us that while he failed to live out the truth he taught, he recognizes that his conduct was clearly wrong."

    The accusations came as Colorado voters will vote on a same-sex marriage ban in Tuesday's elections. Jones said he went public with his story because Haggard supported the constitutional amendment against gay marriage.

    "I had to do the moral thing," he said, according to CNN.

    Many are remaining optimistic of Haggard.

    "Ted Haggard has denied the allegations made against him. So far, there is only one accuser," said a statement by the Rev. Bob Schenck, president of the National Clergy Council and chairman of the Committee on Church and Society for the Evangelical Church Alliance. "The Bible says no man is to be condemned on the testimony of a single accuser. We must prayerfully wait out the investigative process and continue to judge by the evidence."

    "We pray that the charges will totally be dismissed as totally false,” said Bill Taylor, the past Executive Director of the World Evangelical Alliance Missions Commission, in an e-mail.


    I am so tired of the Evangelicals telling me that in order to be a Christian I have to be a complete total effing moron. Stop telling Christians to be stupid sheep, you manipulative, lying wolves in sheep's clothing! I've been telling people for weeks now that they should leave the Evangelicals, but everyone is too busy trying to gain political power to care about anything other than themselves! Get out of Washington, you foolish Christians, or you will find yourselves cast into the Lake of Fire along with every other liar on earth!

    When are you all going to wake up to the fact that Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Bush are all phonies? Check the Washignton Times and see if they have any articles about the Ted Haggard scandal ... The Moonies are lying low until it all blows over, and Bush is distracting America with all this Kerry nonsense!

    Jesus is coming soon and this kind of junk is what you will be found doing when he arrives! You will be cast int the outer darkness, don't you care about your own fate?

  25. The accusation against Mr. Haggard surfaced as voters in Colorado and seven other states get ready to decide Tuesday on amendments banning homosexual marriage. Besides the proposed ban on the Colorado ballot, a separate measure would establish the legality of domestic partnerships providing same-sex couples with many of the rights of married couples.
    Members of Mr. Haggard's 14,000-member megachurch were stunned.
    "It's political, right before the elections," said Brian Boals, a New Life member for 17 years.
    Church member E.J. Cox, 25, called the claims "ridiculous."
    "People are always saying stuff about Pastor Ted," she said. "You just sort of blow it off. He's just like anyone else in the public eye."


    NOTE: The above is only part of a short article that appeared in the Washington Times website, but, you can bet they won't go into much detail about the Haggard scandal, it's not in their best interest. Reverend Sun Myung Moon is not about to make his Republican friends look bad.

    Jerry Falwell has turned his back on Haggard. Dobson is weeping, his broken heart lying on his office floor, asking his flock to pray for Haggard. I wondered why Haggard's eyes looked so effing crazy -- it was the power and the drugs, man!


    From the following website ...


    Filed under: Commentary, Current Events, Movie Review, Keith Johnson

    Rev. Ted Haggard of Colorado Springs (and president of the NAE), has disowned it on the eve of its limited release, saying the filmmakers cast their subjects in a sinister light and misrepresented evangelicalism. What did he say? Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said he “can learn as much about the Catholic Church from ‘Nacho Libre”‘ - a campy wrestling comedy starring Jack Black - as a nonevangelical can learn about evangelicalism from “Jesus Camp.”

    See the story at Again, my point is that by highlighting a fringe sect of evangelicalism, “Jesus Camp” makes fun of ALL children’s pastors! I realize that this last remark of mine might be construed as fundamentally flawed, but I encourage anyone to say this film (which I saw last Sunday) is REPRESENTATIVE of what we should be doing as shepherds of the lives of children! For Ted Haggard, who himself is an avowed Pentecostal (4 Square–think, “Angelus Temple“, “Amy Semple McPherson” and “Jack Hayford), should say it all! Also check out Robert Butler’s great review in the Kansas City Star at

    UPDATE (9/20): Check out “Brainwashed In The Blood” By Rich Tatum (former webmaster for the Assemblies of God denom) at where he points out a few more of the problems with the film, I especially like his evaluation of the theological perspective of this offshoot of pentacostalism.


    NOTE: Yes, Ted appears in "Jesus Camp" and later said the film did not represent the Evangelicals. Maybe he's right. Maybe they're far far worse than depicted in the film. We now know that nothing Ted says from this point on is to be trusted.

    Hey, I'm no angel myself, but, you don't see me anywhere near Meth and preaching about Armageddon and supporting a President who has his finger on the big red button! Is that what the Armageddonists need? Drugs? Do they need to be stoned on Meth when Jesus returns? What a big high that day will be! What a war that will be, with everybody high on Meth and blowing each other's heads off, ripping babies out of women's pregnant bellies and high on crack cocaine! Wowsers!


    Haggard had resigned two days earlier as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, where he held sway in Washington and condemned homosexuality, after a Denver man named Mike Jones claimed to have had drug-fueled trysts with him.

    "Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct," the New Life Church's Overseer Board said in a statement.

    Haggard on Friday acknowledged paying Jones for a massage and for methamphetamine, but said he did not have sex with him and did not take the drug.

    The church's statement said the investigation would continue, to determine how extensive Haggard's misconduct was.

    The Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen by the end of the year, the statement said. A letter explaining Haggard's removal and an apology from him will be read at Sunday services.


    Anyone who seeks power has to lie to get it. Look at any politician. You won't find anyone who has not compromised their principles. You cannot do evil expecting good to come out of it, that is not the way kingdoms should be built. If you establish a kingdom that is built on lies and blood, nothing good will come of it. And here you have 30 Million Evangelicals who want to take over America, to take it back for Christ, what are we supposed to make of them? Do not they all think the way Haggard thinks? I once wrote that the Christians would be chased from Washington, that they would flee with their tales between their legs. I am not a prophet, all I had t do was consider the circumstances: all politicians are liars, all Evangelicals are into Extremist Politics, therefore all Evangelicals are big fat liars, and God will not be happy about this, because his reputation is at stake here. They use God's name and then think he's not paying attention to their words and deeds. That's the biggest mistake any man can make!

    Get the hell out of Washington, you foolish Christians, before Washington kicks the hell out of you! Will you never listen? Will you continue to encourage your people to get out there and vote? Are you effing insane? All of you, have you gone frigging mad?

    Because of you the truth will be evil spoken of, have you no decency left? Will you go on kissing the devil and blessing God? You Evangelicals are nothing! I'm tired of your crapola! I have seen and heard enough and I am so sick of you I want to vomit!

    Thank God I have a Lord and Savior who is righteous! Thank God I don't listen to your worthless garbage and lame advice!

    Have you no idea that the US government might be coming for you, one day? You're blind like bats! You'll pray for Ted Haggard and keep people hoping he'll be reinstated, at least until the voting is over, then you'll drop the great bombshell and call him a true apostate! Won't you? Won't you? He's seeking healing now, isn't he? According to your reports he's feeling guilty, isn';t he?


    I will buy no more Evangelical Lies!

  27. So, Ted Haggard has apologized for "sexual immorality" but he hasn't said exactly what he's done, has he? He has also asked his church for forgiveness and has not said he will go through Evangelical Reprogramming to get rid of his "sexual immorality" and make him straight, as so many have done in the past. See the following site ...

    This guy was once supposed to have been a homosexual but was "fixed", I guess.

    No, I don't think we've seen the last of Ted Haggard. He seems to be a societal-stalker. Take a look at this clip ...

    Ted bashes gays in that clip, and boy is he manipulative. He's parodying himself, actually admitting his own guilt as he messes with people's heads.

    By asking for forgiveness from his congregation he shows how he is STILL mucking around with people's heads. He likes the power that comes with being able to play with people's minds and make them do whatever he wants them to. Now he's playing with his flock from a distance, that rat.

    God save us from these people.

  28. Haggard abandoned ... "WOE TO THE MAN WHO TRUSTS IN MAN."

    AP Top News
    Dobson Quits Haggard Counseling Team
    By Associated Press

    November 7, 2006, 9:19 PM EST

    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Citing a lack of time, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson withdrew Tuesday from the team overseeing counseling for the Rev. Ted Haggard, the evangelical pastor who was fired amid allegations of gay sex and drug use.

    "Emotionally and spiritually, I wanted to be of help -- but the reality is I don't have the time to devote to such a critical responsibility," Dobson said.

    The other two members of the team, Pastors Jack Hayford of The Church on the Way in Van Nuys, Calif., and Tommy Barnett of First Assembly of God in Phoenix, declined to comment.

    Haggard was forced out as senior pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church on Saturday after a former male escort alleged they had sex repeatedly and that Haggard used methamphetamines.

    In a statement read at the church Sunday, Haggard confessed to unspecified "sexual immorality," accepted responsibility for his actions and asked forgiveness.

    The counseling process, called restoration, could take years, said H.B. London, vice president for church and clergy at Focus on the Family.


    NOTE: Yeah, I want to join a Christian Sect that will abandon me when I need them most. Sign me up, I can't wait.


    After tumbling from the pinnacle of the American evangelical movement amid allegations he snorted meth and cavorted with a male prostitute, Haggard has agreed to a rehabilitation process that could last three to five years.

    "I see success approximately 50 percent of the time," said H.B. London, vice president for church and clergy at Focus on the Family, the conservative Christian ministry in Colorado Springs. "Guys just wear out and they can no longer subject themselves to the process."

    Those who fail "end up selling cars or shoes or something, and being miserable and angry the rest of their lives," London said.


    London, who is not involved in Haggard's restoration, said the process will demand honesty from Haggard and determination from his overseers.

    "It cannot be just a matter of friendship. It will have to become almost a confrontational relationship," he said. "You've got to confess your sins and you've got to have a group of people around you who will not let you whitewash the issue."

    The process includes counseling, in groups and alone, and prayer. Each restoration is unique, with a program tailored for the needs of the participant.

    "From the Christian perspective, we think in terms of prayer, we think in terms of what we call godly counsel, where godly men who are clean themselves insert themselves in the life of the one who is struggling," London said.

    The symbolic laying on of hands may also be a part of the recovery, London said.

    "I'm sure there will be those who lay their hands on Pastor Haggard as an act of faith, calling on the act of God to restore and heal," he said. "The prayer can be therapeutic, the laying on of hands can be ceremonial."

    One of the men who agreed to oversee the restoration, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson, has already withdrawn, citing a lack of time. The other two _ Pastors Jack Hayford of The Church on the Way in Van Nuys, Calif., and Tommy Barnett of First Assembly of God in Phoenix _ declined to comment on the specifics of Haggard's program.

    It isn't clear whether Haggard will try to return to the ministry, at New Life or elsewhere. "He says that he has committed his life to God and that he is looking for direction as to where God can best use him," said Leonard Chessler, Haggard's lawyer and friend.


    NOTE: Ted will bust out sooner or later. All work and no play makes Ted an insane boy.

  30. Here are plenty of “Jesus Camp” videos. It took a lot of work to post it here. Hope you appreciate the effort. I am a Christian and I would never have children fall before a cutout of Bush. This is just to remind you guys that we’re not all monsters.

    Documentary Featurette ...

    Becky Fischer Excerpt ...

    Ted Haggard admits his infidelity under the guise of teaching a religious lesson. A clip from the documentary ...

    Official Trailer - designed by Magnolia Pictures to make the public hate the subjects of the film. Wait for the “This means war!” line ...

    Saving Holly ...

    Bill Maher Discussion about “Jesus Camp” ...

    Featurette Number 2 ...

    Rachel ...

    Harry Potter sermon from “Jesus Camp” ...

    Good Morning America Part 1 ...

    Good Morning America Part 2 ...

    The following are some extra clips from the documentary ...

    Clip4 ...

    Clip5 ...

    Clip6 ...

    Becky Fischer thinks she’s a prophet. (Deut.18:22) Take note of the “what I heard the Lord say” line. People usually means this in terms of an psychological impression being placed on the heart by God rather than an actual voice being heard, but, kids don’t know the difference and are being maniupulated into thinking she’s got a direct connection to God. Take a look ...

    Clip2 ...

    Some of the above might have been repeats, so sorry if that’s what happened.

    Phew! Now you guys can see most of the clips available on YouTube. I’m sure there are more than I’ve been able to collect.

    I’m looking forward to seeing this film and being disgusted.

    Take care.


    NOTE: I remember when they were proud to call themselves Fundamentalists, now they're ashamed to say they're Fundies because the Islamist-Extremists have "stolen" that name in the name of Jihad (Holy War). Maybe one day they'll be ashamed to call themselves Evangelicals, because of the likes of Foley and Haggard and more liars that are to come. Well, they can repackage and redistribute themselves all they like, it matters not to me, at least it keeps them from calling themselves Christians too often, that would make all of us Christians look very bad.

  31. We appreciate your keeping us up to date on Haggard and the Jesus Camp. It's sad, pathetic and scary stuff.

    As I've read your stuff lately, I found myself thinking "why does this guy himself remain true to Christianity when everything Christian around him is such B.S.?"

    As I pondered that, I realized the exact same question could be asked of me and of many of the Freemasons who visit this blog. Why do WE remain as Freemasons, when in fact the state of Freemasonry today is as misguided out of kilter with its stated goals and beliefs as Christianity is.

    Perhaps it just a part of being human, us all clinging to "ideals" about a belief system when the evidence before our eyes say the belief system doesn't really seem to be working for too many others.

    — W.S.

  32. What you ask is a very good question: why am I still a Christian in light of what such people do? Well, for one, I'm no angel myself and I know what it's like to sin while being a Christian, and two, I did not become a Christian to follow the Fundies/Evangelicals/Religious Right, although I became a Christian due to their efforts. I made a vow a long time ago to follow even if one of them came to me preaching a different Gospel, which has indeed become the case. They have married politics and the Gospel, and made Jesus a cause for going to war. I don't live for the Evangelicals, I don't trust in their ministers having been disappointed by them too many times. My Jesus came not to rule or to judge or to condemn, he came to rescue, to save, to release the prisoners. If I were in a desert, for metaphorical purposes, I see Jesus going in one direction and the Evangelicals going in another. As far as I'm concerned the Evangelicals are heading in the wrong direction and they are doomed. The Evangelicals are more concerned about Armageddon than the Gospel, they're more interested in killing souls than saving souls. I want to keep alive in myself that spark of warmth that keeps me in touch with what is good. I see the cross, whereas they see Nuclear Mushrooms. I know these people. I listened to their BS for years. Not all of them are bad people, just like there are some Muslims that are non-violent. But, I'll tell you this, some Bible student arrived at a Bible School years ago, in the middle of the nighgt, and woke up his entire dorm by yelling, "I have arrived!" Well, I'll never forget that story. It made me realize that ego is rewarded in the religious world, and made me suspect I was in the wrong place. If I can make one person reconsider their actions and turn away from Armageddonism, then that's good enough for me; the rest are for God to deal with. I hope this answers your question.


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