Those sick bastards at Westboro Baptist Church never sleep. Already, Rev. Fred Phelps and his insane hellions have issued a screed on their website God Hates America, praising mass murderer Cho Seung-Hui as "a crazed madman sent by the Lord your God to shoot at your children," claiming God "willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants [them, the Westboro Baptist Church]."
They vow to "preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students."
I don't like even giving these perverted fundamentalists publicity, but these extremist "warriors of God" are more dangerous than any Iraqi suicide-bomber. The members and supporters of Westboro Baptist Church are too twisted and demented to ignore.
Everyone, but most especially Christians, should be outraged at and should be speaking out — loudly — against this lunatic cult. It's your Savior's name they claim to be speaking in: your Jesus, the Prince of Peace.
God — Jehovah, YHVH, GAOTU, whatever you call Him — doesn't hate homosexuals, soldiers, America, or even these demented demons from Westboro....
God is love.
Image: Vile. Nauseating. Disgusting. My blood pressure is up just writing this.
Westboro Baptist Church | Virginia Tech | Cho Sueng-Hui | Christian Fundamentalists | Fred Phelps | Burning Taper | BurningTaper.com
When you look at the face of the little girl in the red to the left in that picture where they are wearing T-shirts that states "God hates fags," there are a million sad words written in that little face. These people have been out rageous for a long time. But, have you ever noticed that in time they continously fall off the news link until something new comes up? They are so "Un-noteable," they don't even rate after a day or so. Sick creeps. Hopefully, people in that town will keep calling in "Child abuse," reports on these people. Someone needs to speak up for these kids that are being raised in that crap.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble with any freedom is somebody will find a way to abuse it. Can you imagine the life these people must lead inside their minds. Unless they're well and truly insane and incompetant, Can you imagine the tortured heart living inside those people, and the convictions laid on them every time they say something that they know isn't right? .....pity. And the poor kids who'll never be un-warped enough to know the difference because they've been mind-f*d their whole lives into not knowing that it's all bull. *shrug* another sign of the times brothers.
ReplyDeleteIMUS BUSTED OF HATE SPEECH
ReplyDeleteBUT SPEAK HATE IN THE NAME OF GOD, IT IS OK
to the first post-
ReplyDeleteI share your concern for those children. Once again some one abuses the Freedom of Speech and Religion as a loophole for Hate.
By advocating the murders don't they present themselves as a hate group instead of a church? In Japan they arrested Shoko Asahara for being a doomsday cult guru. How about this goof in Kansas?
I have no doubt that these nuts are being watched by law enforcement. But, as disgusting as they are, if they aren’t breaking any laws, it ain’t illegal to be an assho*e in this country. And that’s a good thing. While it allows these deranged creeps to operate, it also protects the rest of us from the narcissistic mean-spirited zealots of all stripes who would dearly love to silence any opinion that differs from their own.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of those "freedom of religion" conundrums, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteCertain religions eschew the use of modern medicines, and normally we look the other way, unless we see some children suffering from what might be otherwise easily treatable diseases. Then it's a given that some social service agency will step in, and then there's the blowup in the papers as everyone discusses what limits people should have on policing their own communities.
How is this different? Personally, I'm not sure it is. The church is not breaking any laws, and if the children of the members are physically healthy, and not being emotionally abused, then what right do we, the larger society, have to condemn their beliefs?
I'm just tossing this out for discussion; I certainly do not agree with their philosophy, but if they are not yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, then how much of their opinions should they be entitled to holding - or holding forth?
Yes, it's definitely a conundrum.
ReplyDeleteI'm a firm believer in freedom of, and from, religion. If those WBC people want to hate in the name of religion, that's their business.
I just got emotional seeing their hate-filled webpage about those killed at Virginia Tech, and then when I saw that photo of the young children in those t-shirts, I had to vent.
Though they're on the extreme edge, their words and actions are examples of what can (and eventually may) happen if theocracy gains more foothold in the U.S.A.
I didn't call for government or police or child protective services to step in, and wouldn't and won't. My point was that I would expect more mainstream Christians to step up to the plate to speak out against these fundamentalist wackos.
— W.S.
re-"I certainly do not agree with their philosophy, but if they are not yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater"
ReplyDeleteYell "Fire" and get arrested. What do you get if you publicly praise these actions (like 911 and VT) and have a congrigation that supports it too. They have a following that listens and may act on it. I guess when some one else acts out like this and they are traced back to a group, than it can be delt with by law.
How do we as Brothers deal with this part of society in this day and age?
Consider the following story:
ReplyDelete"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, 'It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.' Thus did Job continually.
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Whence comest thou?' Then Satan answered the Lord, and said 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.' And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?' Then Satan answered the Lord, and said 'Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.' And the Lord said unto Satan, 'Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.' So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
"And there was a day when Job's sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, 'The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, 'The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, 'The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, 'Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.'
"Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, and said, 'Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.'"
— The book of Job, chapter 1
Job lost essentially everything he had in the course of a single day; his assets were stolen or destroyed, and all 10 of his children were killed, yet he blamed no one for his misfortune, he simply put his continued faith and trust in God.
It seems to me that many people have the unfortunate habit of trying to "explain" things that are beyond their capacity to understand. It's the age-old effort to explain why bad things happen to good people.
When a ship sinks or an airplane crashes, it seems to me that it's worth trying to understand the failures so as to avoid similar events in the future. That's an example of humans trying to understand their own work, and explain their own shortcomings.
When a hurricane or an earthquake strikes, however, it wasn't the work of men, and it isn't in the province of men to attribute reason to the works of God (or if you prefer, random acts of nature).
When people lose their minds, or become consumed by evil, no one can explain the reasons. Instead, they should concentrate their efforts on helping their fellow men in their fallen fortunes, and leave the rest to God.
Be thankful for your life, your family, your friends, and your fortunes, whatever they are. Some days will always be better than others, and the only "constant" in life is change.
If you're on top of the world, enjoy it while it lasts, but realize also that there's only one direction your life can go from there. If you're down and out, however, realize that the same is true for those circumstances as well.
Try to realize that you aren't the central figure in the great "play" of life. You aren't a "star," or even a "narrator," you're just a "supporting actor," the same as everyone else, and there isn't much you can do to change the script, or explain the decisions of the "director."
I have read that the Patriot Guard Riders will only attend the funerals of students in ROTC, if invited.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be a great thing if the Masons of Virginia "stood in the gap" for those families that wanted to have a screen from these protests?
Just a thought....
TM
Here is the number for the Westboro Baptist Church : (785) 273-0325 call them and let them know how much you disapprove;)
ReplyDeleteI have to add something to my post (#2 up there)
ReplyDeleteThese people aren't funamentalists. Christian, or any other kind....there's nothing fundamental about their way or means. At best they twist and warp things from the Bible out of context. 1 John 4:7-8 pretty much cans everything they say. I hope it's ok, I'll copy it in, so that everybody doesn't have to look it up: "7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
And "Traveling Man", I've ridden with Patriot Guard (mostly co-members of Vietnam Vets MC down here in MS) And I think it's a great idea for them to be there, as well as every healthy, hale, and sane man within 100 miles, to see that these people have some last semblance of dignity.
experimental reality:
ReplyDeleteMy post was done in haste. The point I was attempting to make is that the Patriot Guard Riders will only screen families from protesters if the victim was a member of ROTC.
Those who were not, will not have "official" assistance from them. Members, of course, can assist families individually if they so choose.
Now, I'm not faulting them. They stick to their defined purpose, and this is good.
What I am advocating is for Masons to provide the same service, (if asked), for the families of victims who were not affiliated with the military.
And, experimental reality, thank you for the work you do with the Patriot Guard Riders. That is a very good thing.
TM
It looks like maybe Westboro Baptist Church's ISP has had enough of them. Both godhatesfags.com and godhatesamerica.com have been offline the past two days.
ReplyDelete— W.S.
Here is the statement from the Board of Directors of the Patriot Guard Riders regarding the Virginia Tech massacre, from their website:
ReplyDelete"First and foremost, on behalf of the Patriot Guard Riders and its membership of over 88,000 nationwide, I want to extend our deepest sympathies to all the families that have been impacted by the tragedy at Virginia Tech. There are no words to convey our hurt — nor our condolences — to a proper level. Suffice to say, you are not alone in mourning the loss of a family member, or a friend. The Patriot Guard Riders — and this nation — share in your loss.
"There are times when a nation sits in pure shock at the news of a tragedy... 16 APR 07 was such a day. As members of the Patriot Guard Riders, we are all too familiar with the loss of great people. We are all too familiar with young lives — full of promise and hope — ending far too soon. Perhaps nothing is more tragic. This organization was founded with the purpose of honoring those that have given of themselves to serve a cause higher than their own... that of their country. For this, they earned our respect, our admiration, and our unwavering gratitude. However, as we all would agree, great people occupy all walks of life — and impact us everyday. There is a quote from a movie that I am reminded of... 'You don’t have to wear a stripe on your arm to have honor.' At times such as this... we realize how true this is.
"This nation lost 32 innocent lives — some of them young adults just starting to see their lives take shape — still preparing to make their mark in this world. We lost teachers whose charge was to shape and develop the minds of the future. We lost students who had eyes full of hope, promise, and dreams — all left unrealized, and unfulfilled. We all lost something yesterday... even if it was a simple notion of a peaceful serene existence at such an age in life.
"The question has already arisen, 'Will the Patriot Guard Riders attend services if invited?'
"Some of the victims in this tragedy were members of the Virginia Tech ROTC program. If we are invited by their families, as an organization we will accept these missions and do whatever we can. However, some of the victims were not involved in the military. For those, the Patriot Guard Riders — as an organization — will not be involved. That being said, let me continue...
"The strength of the Patriot Guard Riders is not in the organization — but in the membership. Look at the matter in this light... the Patriot Guard Riders is one organization. One organization made up of over 88,000 members — 88,000 members focused on doing what is right to preserve honor, reverence, and respect. As an organization, the PGR must adhere to its mission statement. However, as a person who has vowed to uphold statements like 'Never again' and 'Because it’s the right thing to do'... I have a choice to take action where action is needed — and support is requested. "If you have the opportunity to assist a family in need... whether it be under the name of the PGR or not — do it. Do it, and let others know, for as I said, the strength is not in the organization — but in the people.
"Good organizations don’t make good people. Good people make good organizations. And good people do what is right... and take care of our families.
"Our families lost some of their own... let’s do our best — on an organizational level — and on a personal level – to take care of them as we would in any other instance.
"In memory of those lost on 16 APR 07"
+ + +
As Masons, I hope we take away at least one thing from reading that: "Good organizations don't make good people. Good people make good organizations."
— W.S.
"Good organizations don't make good people. Good people make good organizations."
ReplyDeleteThat's a good quote, and a good sentiment.
In fact, the entire statement is very good, although there is one element with which I take some exception. The author suggests there were only 32 victims, but I would argue there were 33. The shooter himself was a victim, and we should endeavor not to forget that.
Regardless of his crimes, the shooter obviously didn't live in the same reality as the rest of us. I doubt very seriously that he asked to be mentally ill, but he did apparently seek help for his condition a number of times, including having himself voluntarily committed to a mental institution within the last several months.
A psychology professor I once knew, used to say that one of the hardest things for ordinary people to understand, is that "crazy people do crazy things." We can't fully comprehend the thoughts in their minds anymore than we can see the world through their eyes, but we know the world they perceive is different than the one most of us perceive.
When a person commits horrible crimes, the natural human reaction is an inclination toward hostility and revulsion. We perceive the person a common "enemy," and we attribute to him all the characteristics of monsters from the depths of our imagination. It is important to remember, however, that the magnitude of the crimes colors our own perception and attitudes. If the Virginia Tech shooter had stripped himself naked and crawled on his hands and knees through rush-hour traffic while barking like a dog, his actions would have been viewed with much more sympathy, but they would have been no more disturbed.
As responsible adults, we all share the responsibility for seeing that mentally ill people get the care they need. They need to be protected from themselves, just as we occasionally need to be protected from them, and we fail in our responsibilities to our society and our world when we allow them to run with scissors and play with guns.
Mentally ill people do not ask to be mentally ill, nor do they deserve to be. We should all endeavor remember that, along with the wisdom: "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
I support the idea Traveling Man proposed.
ReplyDeleteThe Grand Secretary of Virginia Masons informed me on Wed. "the niece of one of our members lost her life in the tragedy." I assume that means a brother in one of the many Lodges is the member.
Tonight the Grand Secretary will be meeting with the Grand Master to hear his thoughts for response.
I encourage Traveling Man to pitch the Idea to Virginia Grand Lodge.