A reader posed the question on a previous entry, asking if Masonry could be considered a cult.Here are definitions of "cult" from dictionary.com:
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
I'd say that Freemasonry would qualify as a cult under definitions 2, 4 and 5.
It venerates not only ideals, but certain men.
It holds as its basic tenets the ideals of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth, or in some jurisdictions, Brotherly Love, Relief and Morality.
It venerates sometimes specific men, but even moreso, specific titles or positions within the Order.
It has an ideology and a set of rites centering around its symbols, which are considered "sacred."
For a group that ostensibly promotes equality, and says that all men are "on the level," it is heavily hierarchical in its organizational makeup; sometimes not following the rules or even whims of those "in power" can result in ostracization, ridicule, suspension or expulsion.
Are we a cult? How many of us would drink the Kool-Aid for Freemasonry?
(Fun fact: The cyanide-laced fruit drink consumed by the Peoples' Temple cult in Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978 was Flavor Aid, not Kool-Aid. The phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" has come to refer to those who blindly follow an authority even if it leads to serious harm or death, even though the term was used pre-Jonestown by The Merry Pranksters, and referred to taking LSD.)
Image: Houses used by the Peoples' Temple in Jonestown, Guyana
Masons | Cults | Freemasonry | Burning Taper | BurningTaper.com
Masonic Trivial Pursuit
ReplyDeleteRev. Jim's 'Peoples Temple' in San Francisco was located in the city's old Scottish Rite Temple.
As Mr. Ripley would say...
All the ways in which freemasonry is a "cult" will qualify any ritualistic faith tradition, including mainstream Christian denominations, both Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant.
ReplyDeleteWho isn't in a cult?
ReplyDeleteCult is so generic that anytime two or more venerate an idea ie. Fitness, a rock band, AA, NA, Motorcycling, parasailing, underwater basket weaving, etc. they are or can be given cult status.
Is Freemasonry a cult ddamn straight it is.
The cult of Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly love!
And I am damn proud to be a member.
Like any cult, we do have our share of non-believers amongst us. They just hang out with us because we are cool!
Br. Arthur Peterson
Sure Freemasonry is a cult by this defintition. But, so again is every religious system on the planet by the same token.
ReplyDeleteThe term 'cult' is most often used as a pejorative in our society to marginalize the beliefs of others.
I have long since learned that a 'cult' is simply somebody elses religion that you don't believe in.
I often refer to the Christian cult or Catholic cult to put things on even ground.
John
While I take umbrage at the thought of being a cultist, whether you call Freemasonry a cult or a religion is inconsequential. In conventional terms, I would say no, we are not a cult. However, as long as some buffoon like Jean is out there, you will have someone saying Freemasonry fits their definition.
ReplyDeleteKinda reminds me of why the pholosopher George Berkeley's "immaterialism" became popular in the 18th century. Naming stuff is a circumspect endeavor requiring little thought.
Fraternally yours,
The Libertarian
Is it a CULT???
ReplyDeleteCult?
Not a Cult?
Cult? Not a Cult? Cult? Not a Cult? Cult? Not a Cult? Cult? Not a Cult?
Some one pass the Kool-Aid!
This is the problem with language. Sometimes a word means absolutely anything!!!
"4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc."
If this is the case- then my son is a soccer cultist, and my wife is a lazy cultist. Frankly I'm torn by the two. Kool-Aid anyone?
Anyone?
I love this. If there is one Ideal that would seperate us from being a cult- its that we agree to disagree about anything we need to. That's the exception.
My favorite was "6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader."
That's us right there Brothers...
HA!
This was AWESOME WS.
Thanks again
Bama13
This is amazing all these lies and half truths put on this blog by you guys.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
amazing!
ReplyDeleteOne of you has been able to see right through me.
I am lonely.
No one will accept me for who I am (obnoxious)
I was praying to Jesus last week and to my amazement, he answered.
Do you know what he said?
He said "Jean, stop praying to me.
I don't want your kind with me in heaven. Please go bother Mohamed, Vishna, Thor, or anyone else. I don't care who, but stop calling me!"
Could you believe that!
Anyway, I really want Masonry to be a religion so that I can join up with you guys.
You all seem so accepting, your God must be wonderful.
Freemasonry MUST be a religion or I have no hope. No other God will have me.
Please guys tell me I was right all along. PLEASE!
Jean.
Thank your for that great bio about me. I really like it and thanks so much and god bless.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
Jean,
ReplyDeleteThe growing consensus appears to be that you're so flaky we like you. I'm sorry to hear about your run-in with Jesus, but I'm sure He will reconsider if you ask nicely.
Thank you so much. That makes me happy you like me. God Bless.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
Well Jean, since you haven't answered me elsewhere, I like you will set it aside your posts until you do:
ReplyDelete1. What religious system are you aware of where "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" are *not necessary for admission to a pleasant afterlife?
2. What about Matthew Chapter 25 verses 31-46? Let me quote them for you since you are so fond of long posts:
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
So Jean, clearly according to Jesus' own words, works are a necessary component to salvation.
I would say that rather than teaching something new, Masonry reminds a man of what he has already been taught.
I look forward to your reply.
Traveling Man
Jean,
ReplyDeleteYour posts are too long...they bore me.
Please make them short and snappy.
Here's an example you can use:
"Are we a cult? Of course! I tell people all the time that we sacrifice children and eat Goats and do all that great stuff. It's fun to watch their reactions and only those who really care to know what's up will bother to ask more questions! Our "Cult" label is the greatest bullshit filter in the world!!"
See that Jean, short, snappy, gets to the point. Thanks for reading.
By the way. If you start posting to my blog, I will hunt you down and use you as my next blood sacrifice.
SEE! Wasn't that FUN?!?!
-AEdifico
Oh Jean Jean the Cut and Pasting machine adds color to the scene.
ReplyDeleteJean, I'm trying to understand, how did Widow's son throw sand in your eyes? He did blog about you very recently but that was after you left sooo many comments in his blog in the first place. If you think about it, who was the one who came here in the first place? Did someone force you to read his blogs or comment? Just trying to use logic to figure things out.
Also, I do want to hear your response/view to Traveling Man's questions.
And if masonry really is a religion (by your definition,) then I guess we all follow the "religion" of charity, relief, and brotherly love. but answer the previous questions first please.
~Ephraim
The really fun thing about all this is how important it is to Jean to convince us that Masonry is a religion. I would really like to hear why he/she/it thinks it's so vitally important. I've been a Mason for ten years. If Masonry were my religion, I would know it by now. Also, if Masonry were a religion, I would have abandoned it long ago, because hanging out with a handful of old guys whose biggest concern is the annual barbecue would make for a lousy religion. Anyway, this discussion with Crazy Jean is the most fun I've had with Masonry in a long time. Thanks everyone!
ReplyDeleteTHERE IS ONLY ONE GOD!
ReplyDeleteHE IS THE SUN GOD!
RA! RA! RA!
I've been a Mason for ten years. If Masonry were my religion, I would know it by now.
ReplyDeleteThat's because the secret 42nd degree Elect Masters have clouded your mind. You're actually praying to Baphomet, though you know it not! Heathens! Pagans! Give up your false religion now before it's too late!
Also, if Masonry were a religion, I would have abandoned it long ago, because hanging out with a handful of old guys whose biggest concern is the annual barbecue would make for a lousy religion.
It's your SOUL that will barbecue in HELL for all eternity, you Baphomet worshiping pagan! Repent now!
"It's your SOUL that will barbecue in HELL for all eternity, you Baphomet worshiping pagan! Repent now!"
ReplyDeleteWell, o.k....I forgot about the Baphomet worshipping pagan part.
AEdifico. I also am happy to discribe the sacrifical nature of our cult. Might I suggest throwing in a bit about the wearing of te goat skin pants and the cloven hoof'd shoes........
ReplyDeletejeff
"Jean" wrote:
ReplyDelete"I'am just so glad that I have a blog about me this is great and I love it."
Ooops... wasn't that exactly what you tried to conceal all the time? Lost focus for the split of a second and inadvertently told the truth, eh, "Jean"? Awww, too bad. So, you are not *really* interested in what Masons think about Masonry, it's more about showing the world what a brilliant mind you are, and that you can read and write (next to copy and paste)? Well, in this case, I'm sorry for answering at all, "Jean". Keep posting. Maybe someone will still read it.
Ludwig
I say again, I like the Grand Orient of France better all the time. Take the Bible off the altar and take ammo away from fruitcakes like Jean whose invisible friend in the sky talks to her.
ReplyDeleteTo masonic travler. Here's an answer to all you questions.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
"The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion."
ReplyDeleteJean -- does this mean the Baptists are "lying" too? I guess it must be because they don't handle snakes. Thanks to Jean, I've come to the straight and narrow path. In fact, I'm about to start speaking in tongues: a[ifjp[oq;aslhjfpieahjcweistyenrohlskshcweuidjrhgwoiustohdkhsoishdiskhljhmczkjmkmzlhjgzlkmthndiomp;j
No Jean, that was not an answer, that was a regurgitation of a previous post.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know, in your own words, if you think that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" is *not* essentially necessary for entrance into heaven, and why did Christ in Matthew 25 v31-46 outlined the works to be performed if works were not necessary for salvation?
Merely re-posting what you have does *not* answer my question.
Please try again.
Traveling Man
The big problem with the Masonic cult is its total inconsistency regarding worshipful beings. In the south it is largely a pig cult that worships hickory smoked hog cadavers smothered in molasses based BBQ sauce. In the north it is a sort of Piscean cult that worships beer battered flounder. Generally speaking one could reasonably conclude that overall it is neither heathen, pagan nor satanic, but animalistic in nature.
ReplyDeleteBro. Widow’s Son, would you please pass me some more BBQ sauce?
"jean", vishnu wouldnt want you.
ReplyDeleteha ha, joking, our god accepts all.
if by "cult" we mean a collective with shared ideals, mores and culture, then yeah, freemasonry is a cult.
best cult ever.
as a sociology and cultural graduate with honours (ive actually written a thesis on cultural studies), freemasonry is actually also a subculture and counter-culture, particularly in these narcissistic and self-absorbed, paranoid times.
better than that evangelical christian cult. money for forgiveness? apocalypse? racism?
c.z.
---nemo said...
ReplyDelete"The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion."
Jean -- does this mean the Baptists are "lying" too? I guess it must be because they don't handle snakes. Thanks to Jean, I've come to the straight and narrow path. In fact, I'm about to start speaking in tongues: a[ifjp[oq;aslhjfpieahjcweistyenrohlskshcweuidjrhgwoiustohdkhsoishdiskhljhmczkjmkmzlhjgzlkmthndiomp---
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE, awesome use of tongues.
c.z.
To masonic travler. Here's an answer to all you questions.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
To quote from 'Cool Hand Luke' Jean, what we have here is a failure to communicate.
ReplyDeleteYou haven't answered my questions in the slightest. You have failed to respond to a direct question with a request that you answer in your own words instead of spewing forth vast amounts of 'cut and paste' material.
So. I will ask you again: Do you believe that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" is *not* necessary to gain entrance into heaven? (Here's a hint, it's a yes or no answer.) And, what about the words of Jesus in Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46; doesn't this outline a works based method of salvation? (Another hint, this to is a yes or no answer.)
I'm not interested in what Pike or Hall or Joseph Fort Newton had to say. I would like to to answer in your own words.
However, since you like Albert Pike as a source, why didn't you quote this from 'Morals and Dogma'?
"Though Masonry neither usurps the place of, nor apes religion, prayer is
an essential part of our ceremonies."
"The obligation of the candidate is always to be taken on the sacred book
or books of his religion, that he may deem it more solemn and binding;
and therefore it was that you were asked of what religion you were. We
have no other concern with your religious creed."
And finally, one that I believe applies to you: "Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or
would pervert it."
Be Well,
Traveling Man
To masonic travler. Here's an answer to all you questions.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency of all true Masonry is toward religion. If it make any progress, its progress is to that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories - all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious institution?('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 618, vol. 2)
"Masonry, then, is, indeed, a religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious Mason defend it."('Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry', by Mackey, p. 619, vol. 2)
Henry Wilson Coil used the dictionary definition of "religion", as per Funk and Wagnall's, in proving his case that Freemasonry is a religion:
“Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnall’s ‘New Standard Dictionary’ (1941) defines Religion as: ‘A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived of after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he thinks himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief.’ This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man’s dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have life feelings? That is exactly what the lodge does.”
"Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind." ('Coils' Masonic Encyclopedia')
I realize you would prefer that we use whatever you wish to call a definition of religion. However, since we know of no dictionary you have published, we find very little reason to accept your "definition" of religion over the more lucid definitions found in legitimate dictionaries.
Masonry presents a god of sorts that its members are to pray to; Masonry requires belief in a supreme being; Masonry requires belief in the immortality of the soul; Masonry presents a plan of salvation; Masonry engages in a regeneration ceremony, similar to those engaged in by the Ancient Mystery Religions; Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Lets read that last sentence again, shall we? Masonry professes three articles of faith. Albert G. Mackey is regarded as being among the great, if not the greatest of all, Masonic authorities.
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Lets all read that last sentence again, shall we? Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.
Until then, here is one of the preferred statements about classifying Masonry as a religion and having a "religious nature", as the author here, John Weldon, points out:
Masonry claims it has the qualities of a religion but is still not a religion; or that it is religious but still not a religion. However, the latter point makes as much sense (as even Coil pointed out) as to say that a man has no intellect but is intellectual, or that he has no honor but is honorable. Religious is defined as "imbued with or adhering to religion or a religion."[41]
While it is possible for an organization to have a religious quality and yet not be a religion -- such as Christian groups that specialize in missions or research and have daily periods of prayer, Masonry is more than this. The religious quality of Christian organizations is based on Christianity while the religious quality of Masonry is based on Masonry itself, which qualifies it as a religion.
The (Southern Baptist) Study wrongly concluded that Masonry is not a religion. Nevertheless it was forced to confess that "many men make the Lodge their religion."[42]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate. Masonry requires the candidate to believe in God, obey Him, worship Him, seek His guidance, and so forth, which qualifies it as a religion. And, as I have already documented, Masonry claims its members will earn admittance to heaven based on personal character and good works. This also classifies the Lodge as a religion. In fact, any standard dictionary or encyclopedia definition of religion proves beyond doubt that Masonry is a religion.[43] Dr. Shildes Johnson is only one of many scholars of comparative religion who have concluded: "A comparison of the moral, allegorical, and symbolic teachings of Freemasonry with these definitions of a religion reveals that the lodge is a theistic, non-Christian, man-centered, and universal religion."[44]
All this is why numerous leading Masonic authorities have publicly confessed that Masonry is, in fact, a religion. For example:
Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...."[45]
Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry" (emphasis added).[46]
Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...."[47]
Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen."[48]
You better get some better masons in here. Your straw men just won't cut it anymore Widow's son. But keep thumping that square and compass. Lets meet on the wooden hammer, rest on the square, and hang out on the level.
Jean.
OOOOOKAYYYY.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your questions Jean, (from another post here at the *Taper*).
We don't try to refute what others have written because that was *their* understanding of Masonry.
As long as the landmarks, (and a lot of Masons disagree with just exactly how many, and what they are), no Grand Lodge in the United States is going to tell you what to believe. (Refrence my quote from Albert Pike.)
They weren't "lying", they were writing the truth as they understood it. Because Freemasonry *isn't* a religion, no other Mason has to accept what they wrote as "gospel". Is that so very difficult to understand?
Now that I've answered your question, please answer mine.
Be Well,
TM
"traveling man" wrote:
ReplyDelete"Do you believe that 'purity of life and rectitude of conduct' is *not* necessary to gain entrance into heaven?"
Since Jean won't (or isn't equipped to) answer that question, I'll give it a shot:
According to the Gospel of St. Luke, as reported in the New Testament, when Jesus was led to Calvary to be crucified:
"There were also two other, malefactors, led with [Jesus] to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.... And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Therefore, those who believe the Gospels, must also believe the words of Christ to the repentant thief, which indicate that "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" are *not* necessary to gain entrance into heaven.
The repentant thief admitted that he was justly condemned for his deeds; by his own admission he'd led a life which warranted a death sentence, yet even in the final moments of that life, Jesus promised him a place in heaven.
Some might argue, then, that Christians believe they can be wicked, and still be assured of a place in heaven. Technically speaking, that may be correct, but it should be noted that while all may eventually arrive at the same destination, the roads they choose will undoubtedly result in varying degrees of difficulty.
Those who choose to do good, should do so because it gives them pleasure and peace of mind, not for any other reason. They shouldn't trouble themselves contemplating the just consequences of wickedness, because if God in his infinite love and wisdom, chooses to forgive the wicked, that's fortunate for them, but it's no detriment to those who've enjoyed a righteous life.
Humans are afforded countless choices, among which are the choices of attitude toward those we perceive as less righteous. We can pity them for their lives of chaos, doubt, and paranoia, or we can resent the idea that they may receive the same reward in heaven as we do ourselves. If we choose that attitude, however, we're forced to attribute it to jealousy and envy for their undisciplined and unenlightened lifestyles.
Think of "paradise" in the afterlife as a trip to an exotic vacation destination. If we perceive ourselves as traveling there on a private jet, why should we envy or resent people in less fortunate circumstances who travel there by raft, or other inferior means? Shouldn't we be thankful that our journey is more pleasant, and not be envious or resentful that they'll eventually arrive at the same place?
Perhaps it is likewise with the wicked. They may eventually arrive at the same destination as the righteous, but their journey probably won't be as pleasant. That isn't a reason to envy or resent them, but to be thankful that we were more fortunate.
To the Anonymous Poster above:
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the time to give me a well reasoned and thorough response.
I had thought I had left a comment for you previously, but there must have been a problem. I did not want you to think I had ignored you.
I am curious, how do you incorporate what you outlined above with Matthew 25 and James 2:17?
Thank you again for your response.
TM
Traveling Man writes:
ReplyDelete"I am curious, how do you incorporate what you outlined above with Matthew 25 and James 2:17?"
After reading your reply a few days ago, I reviewed the chapters and verses you mentioned, and quickly realized that I didn't know enough to compose an intelligent reply. I hoped that additional research might rectify that, and I reviewed a few chapters before, as well as a few chapters after, but my answer has unfortunately remained the same: I don't know how to incorporate those apparently different ideas.
To my uneducated view, the Bible seems filled with contradictions. Perhaps it's because of issues with translation from the original languages, or perhaps it's just my own limited ability to understand and integrate complex ideas. Consider the following as an example:
"As [Jesus] sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them... nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places... and then shall the end come... the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven... Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:3 - 34.
My understanding of the above, is that Jesus told his disciples that the end of the world would occur during their own generation. Since that apparently didn't happen, it seems that all explanations basically boil down to one of two possibilities: either Jesus was wrong, or people have wrongly interpreted his words.
Theological students devote their lives to studying the Bible, just as Imams devote their lives to studying the Koran, and Rabbis devote their lives to studying the Torah. With so much study, one might expect more accord, but different scholars interpret the words in different ways, and present reasonable and logical arguments in support of their interpretations.
People will probably always debate whether it's possible to gain admission into heaven through grace alone, or works alone, or if some combination of both are required. I'm not smart enough to sort that out, and any answer I could produce, could be easily and logically refuted by another equally valid interpretation.
For me personally, however, the book of the Bible that seems most profoundly meaningful, is the book of Ecclesiastes. If Masonry has ever benefited me in a tangible way, it's that it inspired me to read that book.
The author of Ecclesiastes is thought to have been King Solomon, and he apparently wrote it during a period of introspective reflection. He expressed much of the frustration and despair that men commonly feel, and he explained the philosophy he espoused to carry on. At the end, he summed up his idea of the duties of man as follows:
"Revere God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Some believe that Baptism and the acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah, "excuses" men of all their past and future sins, and that idea seems to be supported by certain statements in the New Testament. Even if one's sins are "excused" in the afterlife, however, who's to say that "judgment" won't be executed against them in one's earthly life?
Take the example of the repentant thief who was crucified with Jesus. As noted above, Jesus promised him a place in heaven, but the thief was still crucified for his crimes. That "judgment" obviously came at the hands of men, but God refrained from preserving his life, as he preserved the life of Daniel, who was thrown into a den of hungry lions.
If one can believe the common interpretation of some parts of the New Testament, it seems that "good works" are not essential to gain admission into heaven. Indeed, if that was not the case, it would preclude the admission of infants and mentally handicapped persons, who die without ever having an opportunity to perform works of any sort, either good or bad.
In any event, I doubt that any reasonable person would attempt to deny that "good works" are desirable, but to claim they're "essential" to gain admission into heaven, is perhaps a declaration that humans aren't justly qualified to make.
To the Annonymous poster above.
ReplyDeleteThank you for a very candid and forthright answer to my question.
It was not meant to be confrontational. I honestly wanted to know your thoughts and feelings.
Your internal consistancy and your candor make corresponding with you far more enjoyable than replying to repeated screeds.
Be Well,
TM